The impact of design thinking on salesDesign thinking is a process for creative problem-solving. It has a human-centered core. It is used to solve problems in organizations and is can specifically help sales and marketing teams. Pooja spoke to the experts from HumanInc about this methodology can create a truly connected customer experience and impact sales significantly. Key takeaways on the impact of design thinking:

1) Design thinking helps orient sellers to their customer’s business problems and focus their products and services to deliver more value to their customers.

 2) It helps sellers navigate complex structures in organizations and bring ultra-relevant experiences for the customer

 3) The ROI for sales and the seller is significant and the team share their stories of success Give it a listen, stay curious, and connect with Mike Cannon and Synne Sogge Stohlmacher if you are keen on more information

If you enjoy this content, check out this episode where we explored the role of trust in sales.

And let us know, how do you want to help improve the Enablement profession?
Audio Transcript

Pooja Kumar
For ASEAN and India, My mission is to create a place where, say, enablement leaders and business leaders can come together and learn new ways of accelerating their sales team’s performance. I just before I start, I want to address there is a large part of our audience that are from India or have family in India. And given the stage of the pandemic in India, I wanted to take a moment to send you all I love from coffee collaboration, enablement, and wishes for wellness and a huge hug. I hope you overcome this soon. Back to the show today, I am absolutely honored to have two very interesting people. Very clever people. I’ve got my Canon and cinestyle marker from human ink. Human ink is a company that is actually I’m going to ask them to introduce him human ink to you because I don’t really know it well enough to be able to tell you to articulate it well enough. So Mike cannon is the principal principal of design for human Inc. and Sina Stoll marker is a senior innovation consultant for human Inc. Pretty cool title over there center. So Mike and Sina, can you tell us a little bit more about yourself and what human ink is all about?

Mike Cannon
Yeah, so maybe maybe I’ll just start with a quick one on on human effects. So, so human ink is, is essentially a kind of a design consultancy, we work in really a couple spaces, one is developing future talent, and helping kind of future proof organizations by giving them skills that will kind of carry them into the future. So we do a lot of kind of jumping in with organizational culture and upskilling folks in innovation methodologies and, and that kind of stuff. The other side is the actually working with clients to to develop future future products and services. And get involved in strategy and culture and, and those kinds of pieces to help to help help organizations kind of maybe maybe kind of underneath that kind of the backbone of who we are. And kind of what what guides us is that we are kind of a human centric, kind of design oriented organization. So so we lean a lot on design thinking and agile practices and kind of future mindsets as not just something that we, that we, that we use with clients, but actually that we that we believe in, in kind of leads leads us and how we work. So so that’s a little bit on human eat. And just kind of off the top of the head unique. But maybe I’ll introduce myself a little bit. So I’m originally from the US, I’ve, I’m now sitting here in Kuala Lumpur, and have lived outside the US for about 22 years 1212 of which is is it’s it’s been sitting here in KL I originally came from kind of the aerospace science and kind of education spaces that having having flown airplanes and instructed before before getting more involved in kind of education and innovation spaces. And as you said earlier, I’m the principal of design here in Munich. So I kind of lead the team that is either involved in, in consulting with with clients over business challenges, new products and services experiences for customers and users. Or, or were involved in helping organizations adopt this way of working by upscaling and teaching teaching these methodologies to them. But with senan I were kind of kind of joking and kind of thinking about man, what were our first kind of sales experiences or what were some of our fun ones. And they kind of took me all the way back to two elementary school. My first sales experience was was that I can recall was, was a as an elementary school student, very young, maybe about 10 or 11 years old. And they the school had a charity drive that I kind of didn’t really know much about or even really understand for me what and for most of us what it was was just like we got home we got sent home with a whole bunch of boxes of chocolate and we’re supposed to browse the neighborhood and sell this chocolate to, to to houses in the in the neighborhood. But I didn’t quite get how the whole thing work because I quickly saw that I was putting a lot of effort into this and wasn’t getting anything out of it and I thought well surely I should be getting something out of this too. So I kind of marked up the price in my chocolate bars by a buck and was selling them For $1 more than I should have, and it was all going great. I felt good about it. I was making money for charity. And I was putting a little money in my own pocket at the at the age of 10. I had no plan for what I was going to do for that money. But like I said, it was sailing and I and everything was was going great until I tried to sell to the house that one of my friends had already been to. And shortly after that my mom got a phone call from a neighbor, and my sales career was over for the next few years. So that was kind of my first my first sale. But I’m not the only one. Maybe. Maybe we’ll let let the senate introduce her.

Pooja Kumar
Yeah. I love that story, though. So So pocketing some of the profits and cold calling well done. Good way to start.

Synne Sogge Stohlmacher
Yeah, it is. Right off the bat, right. Yeah, so I work very closely with Mike I am as you can also see, not not from HR. Originally, I’ve been been here for the last four years also in Malaysia. I’m originally from Norway. And before I came to came to Asia and started working with human Inc, I have a background from the startup scene. So in the startup scene, I was really using design thinking to develop social enterprises. Also across the globe. So worked in Kenya, I worked in the US, I worked in Canada. So I’ve been around the block a little bit. And I would say, when I was kind of thinking about one of my crazy sales experiences, I have to pull out one where I was in I was in Kenya. And I was invited to talk about my startup, which was about clean water at the time. And I was invited to this community event, I didn’t really know what to expect, I showed up. And turns out this event was a funeral. And I was speaking in front of 400 people in a row with a microphone standing nice next to a casket with, obviously something inside. There’s still a picture of this. And I sometimes pull it out in my workshops, if I feel like you need a little bit. But I feel like if I overcame managing to do sales in that environment, I feel like I can do it almost anywhere.

Pooja Kumar
You were selling them clean water at a funeral.

Synne Sogge Stohlmacher
Yes, yes. And I kind of said that I was going to be there. And everyone wanted to know what the what the European girl was doing in the crowd. So I kind of had to get up. And it was a strange pitch was a strange pitch. But also apparently culturally appropriate over there. Not not here, but the or, or in Norway for that sake. But the super interesting experience. And since then, I’ve ventured into a lot of design thinking with with more corporate clients. So merging the startup kind of feel with with more of the corporate resources, and recently also hosted a lot of workshops specifically on design thinking and sales and for sales enablement. So super, super excited to be here and talk a bit more about that.

Pooja Kumar
Well, you know what, guys, at some stage, I think I’m going to do a tell us your funniest experiences and sales webinar. Does a

Mike Cannon
very interesting webinar.

Pooja Kumar
All right. But back to design thinking now, I was introduced to design thinking several years ago, and when I worked in IBM, and I saw the impact that it could have on sales. In fact, it does have on sales in building in for the customer and building new markets and for the salesperson and building really great extreme pipeline and very connected relationships. I have been surprised, though, over the since then, that I don’t see a lot of companies adopting this technique. So tell us a little bit about design thinking. Specifically, yeah,

Mike Cannon
yeah, absolutely. I think that, I mean, for those of you that don’t know much about design thinking, you hear it described, maybe in a lot of different ways, and maybe its most kind of commonly subscribed and kind of plight of this innovation space. And that would be true, it is an innovation method methodology. But I think it’s it’s better to kind of think about design thinking is more of a creative problem solving methodology. Meaning that its its its usefulness is much broader than just kind of whatever you think, the innovation spaces, it’s, it really is a collaborative way to understand problems and to work to solve those problems by envisioning, envisioning solutions. So, so just kind of to give you a little bit of a breadth of maybe what that could mean, right? design thinking is, is kind of can very broadly be used. So we use design thinking with businesses, and and across multiple industries. Ranging from from government and policy that affects, that affects that affects, you know, populations to, to very specific businesses, whether it’s it’s in finances industry, or or you Or it’s in manufacturing, or it’s in automotive, or aerospace or any of those things. So, so it really is kind of a methodology that can use be used quite broadly. And I think as we kind of narrow down today, we’ll see how that can kind of touch sales and not just touch it, but like, be potentially a very instrumental part of what the sales and sales sales network experience can be. So essentially, it’s about empathy. If you kind of look at at innovation methodologies, and what sets design thinking apart, it is that customer centric boat focus where we kind of say in the beginning, what is it that we’re trying to to understand or redesign? Or what experience? Are we looking into what challenge and who is that meant to benefit? And what if instead of us just kind of coming up with our best thoughts on what we think we could do for that person? What if we actually talk to that person first and put them in the front of the design process? And not at the very end? And so design thinking actually actually does that says, Who is it that we’re designing for? How can we go out understand them in a meaningful way, so that we can see the world the way they see the world. And instead of just defining all the problems that we think exist, we can actually focus in on the problems that are most meaningful to the user. And if we knew what those problems were, then we would know what solutions we need to create or in what way we need to change things. So it really is about understanding the customer. And as we relate this back to kind of the sales enablement, if we if we understand our customer, then we’re much more likely to understand the challenges they face, if we understand the challenges, we can better position, or create or reimagine products or services, which then means we’re selling more meaningful solutions to customers, which they’re more ready to adopt. So that’s that’s kind of how we see in general what dt is, but also a little bit into to why we think it’s an important place.

Pooja Kumar
Thank you. And I really like how you, you broke down that word empathy. So the I think it’s a quite an overused word at the moment, and what does empathy really mean. But it is about understanding and putting the customer in the front and center understanding what their problems are. And then sales, understanding what the customers customers even thinking to solve their problems. And bringing that Why else? Should we care about this methodology in sales? Do you think? So it gives us a perspective on customers? And then what?

Mike Cannon
Well, I mean, this is this is a fun one, because I you know, who jazz we kind of prepared for this? Or we’re thinking about it, you know, it’s, we we had already been kind of developing in one sense, and have developed and run courses, specifically for sales and VP, but of course, you know, doing something like this with you kind of makes us kind of put our head in the game a little bit more and kind of think about it. Yeah. Yeah, one of the thing, one of the things that, that that that kind of stood out to me, as I was thinking about this is I see, there’s really two spaces one is, is in the sales experience, if you’re if you’re doing direct sales, then a you are you are front and center with the customer, you’re kind of in the best spot to understand how customers are reacting to your products and solutions. And if in one sense, if your goal is I’m supposed to sell this product and service that you really kind of focus on that, then it’s easy. It’s easy to kind of forget the other side of that equation is that when I meet resistance, or I’m not able to sell, what is it that’s that’s missing? In what ways? Am I not meeting the customer needs? And if I could deploy some tools from design thinking about how to listen to customers how to understand their needs, but also the feedback part of design thinking of how do I carry that information back to my organization, so that sales enablement, can, can leverage that feedback so that we can get a better kind of product market fit in one way. So from a sales enablement standpoint, I think I think the real beauty here is that you are kind of the closest to the customer on a regular basis, you have an opportunity to listen and really understand what customer needs are right? And that kind of leads us into this these two spaces of how can I better position my product if I know it can meet that need? or How can I feed that back to the organization so we can reimagine that product experience to do so. So those are those that’s what I think it’s particularly important for sales enablement, because at the end of the day, the design thinking process is a very human process. And and so how do we kind of leverage that that human piece to make better and more meaningful experiences

Pooja Kumar
Really liked that that’s so true. So So apart from just putting the human or the customer in the center of it really understanding what their needs are and feeding that back into the sales organization or the product organization or even in some cases, offerings, right, just might just be the pricing organization to say, actually, in my country or in my, my territory, this is what we’re really looking for. And here’s some evidence from conversations that I’ve had from customers rather than just a wish list. Right?

Mike Cannon
Yeah, exactly. And I think I think, you know, we, we kind of talked about the line between products and services are is blurring. And so in, in one sense, there’s, there’s fewer products that are excuse sclusively products, because they are also services, which means that we’re really selling experiences. And I think there’s kind of to two key two key pieces to that one that affects sales enablement directly. One is this idea of product market fit. And the other one is the sales experience itself. So how can I leverage kind of this design thinking in these kind of empathy skills and this human touch, to have better conversations to understate stand needs better? feed that back to the organization? The other side of is how can I reinvent the sales experience to have better conversations and set those up in more meaningful ways? And in the first place? So? So I do I do, we do feel like, not only is this something that’s kind of developed and become increasingly important, we see our own clients and our own customers are increasingly asking for this because they know they need to kind of up their game in how they understand their customers and users.

Pooja Kumar
So pretty plays Mike into not just the sales organization, but listening to you that feedback loop pay plays into market into marketing into product innovation, and perhaps even into the operation side. And it really links. So it’s, that’s what sales enablement does. I guess it’s links for different parts of the organization to be more relevant to the customer. And design thinking is a great way of facilitating that that process. Okay. Yeah. And you know, what, I’d love some stories do you have I mean, that that all sounds fantastic. But do you have any ways to show us give us some real time examples of how this would play out?

Synne Sogge Stohlmacher
Yeah, absolutely. So So of course, we’ve we’ve done in all these phases that Mike is mentioning. So maybe maybe the first one to mention is a little bit about this, this value proposition, as you pointed out, as well Pooja, that the salesperson kind of knows what the market needs, so that could be opening up new markets, developing new products, new services. So it’s really about how do we leverage that understanding to come up with new concepts. So design thinking is a great methodology to come up with new concepts. But it’s also a great methodology to kind of turn whatever can be seen almost as problems into opportunities. So I have one example, I recently had a workshop with a with a client and and they are a logistic company, and they have built basically built their whole success model or business model around same day delivery. Now, with the world changing, and the more and more young people like myself is kind of coming on board, we don’t necessarily want same day delivery, what we really want is to reduce co2 emissions. So by understanding this shift in the market, the customer has to completely reimagine how they are delivering products and services, and how do they differentiate between the customers that still one same day delivery, versus the ones that are maybe even willing to pay more and wait longer for the carbon footprint to be produced? So all of those solutions are things we can both understand and design thinking. And instead of seeing that as an obstacle, and as a way for us to kind of have a sudden death as an organization, we see that as an opportunity to innovate our offerings. And also, then, of course, how do we sell those offering as a salesperson? Because you then need to know, what do you sell? To which customer? What do they care about? And how can you very quickly understand that in a way that creates value?

Pooja Kumar
So by understanding the demographic and understanding what the demographic actually cares about, you can you can, the company can can can bring out different value propositions or different ways of of marketing their services to impact or be relevant to you.

Synne Sogge Stohlmacher
Absolutely. I think that plays into a little bit on the customer journey as well. Right? So when we have the right value proposition in the market, and we kind of know that, okay, this is a relevant product or relevant service that a customer wants, then how do we actually create an experience from end to end that is meaningful for the customer where we have the right touch points to kind of push ourselves but also the right touch point to create stickiness to create loyalty. So really looking at the overall sales journey, combining maybe physical and digital touch points to create an experience that is ultra relevant for our customer. So So now it’s really about what is the experience that we’re selling. So Mike mentioned that the lines between product and services are very much blurring. But we are what we are really selling is an experience. It’s this whole layer around the product is around the service. And what does that experience look like? And that’s also something that we can very much design, if we understand what is it that our customer wants? In each of these touch points? Do they want personal touch? Do they want speed? Now that we have the product, what does that look like?

Pooja Kumar
And I think really hyper personalized, that it’s not just about personalization, it’s about this is about you do your customer, really hyper personalized at all? touchpoints?

Synne Sogge Stohlmacher
And you have a great example of that. Right, Mike?

Mike Cannon
Yeah. So. So I think that, you know, there’s, there’s kind of this, the this idea of, of how do we look into those things as an organization, there’s maybe the micro level of as an individual, and I’m, I’m doing empathetic sales, and I’m understanding the customer. But then there’s also this view as as an organization, how do we do that. And so a lot of the work that that that we do is helping organizations kind of set up those mechanisms, working with relevant stakeholders, helping them kind of create, in one sense, the roadmap so that they can begin to see these things themselves. It wasn’t too long, too long ago that worked with a cargo carrier. And so they, they knew that they had some some sales journey problems. So from that standpoint, what they want to do is kind of look at, looking at this flow experience. And when they first kind of call this in, they were essentially, they were essentially kind of in the boat that I think we are often in individually where we just want to sell the thing we have to sell, or as an organization, we’re often in that same boat of, we know the product, we have the solution. So it’s not that we’re doing something wrong, because customer doesn’t know how to interact with us. Right, right. And so so that piece of actually going and listening to the customer is kind of what was what was in one sense missing with them. So we essentially help them kind of put together a team that looked at the entire sales journey. So from kind of the attraction to the interaction to the first purchase, and then looked at, for them. For them. It was marketing, sales, it was sales partners, it failed agents, it was looking at kind of the domestic and also the international lens. So we put together a team and each of these departments, while they are all part of the same journey, they don’t actually often work together. So they all have their own views of actually what the problem was. And so when we put them kind of in the same room and said to da, you’re now a design team, then that became a very, a interesting experience for them in the first place. But then when we said, well, we we want you to create a journey map, we want you to look at what you see, from your view, what do you see are kind of the bottlenecks in customer experience or pain points from your view. And so they were experts at depth, and we had great, really amazing looking super colorful journey map. But what was really interesting one was when I said, Okay, I want you to spend the next hour identifying customers who are currently in that stage of the journey. And you as a design team are going to interview these customers in each stage. So they took the rest of the afternoon they did that they came back, then what they came back with was a complete remapping of that, wow, we thought were problems were not problems at all, actually, this is the problem. And what they were able to do, because they were actually listening to the to the customer, instead of fighting for the problem in their own department, they were now fighting for a problem that was affecting all of them. And it completely changed their entire sales process. And not only that, it changed their sales process which they had interest in on the back end. But it also changed their customer experience, and made it a much more pleasurable experience. So I think that, that that this idea of what design thinking can do for us as individuals, and we flip it on and say I’m not just pushing, but I’m also listening. Also, what does it look like when we turn that on as an organization, they organizationally, we need to we need to have this view and the mechanism to be able to listen and act like that. So those are those are those are that was kind of the example that I kind of thought of because it had both that for those people in that team. They’d never worked like that before. And it changed how they work but it changed also how they they saw themselves as individuals.

Pooja Kumar
That’s a huge impact. Both of you both of the stories are just incredible, and how often do we see that people in an organization Haven’t really come to a point of view on on what the real problem is. So they’re solving different problems for the customer. That’s huge, hugely impactful, just want to take a minute, we’ve had a comment in the chat from Shivam. loved the idea of combining empathy and customer centricity together. And it’s true, those are often overlooked. And they’re not really seen. We say the word customer centric, but it’s not really about being truly in sales, customer centric. Design Thinking can really help with understanding the real problem. Okay. Okay, I’ve got it. We’ve moved on, just want to talk a little bit about the business impact, using the process. So you’ve just told me a couple of really great stories over there. And I imagine that the impact would have been huge. Do you have any stories of business impact of using design thinking in? In the sales organization, or otherwise?

Synne Sogge Stohlmacher
Yes, I think there’s a lot of kind of individual stories about what design thinking do. And I think it depends a bit on the organization and the type of problems that they’re facing. I think the story Mike brought up now is super relevant. We’ve also worked with other organizations was kind of moved from launching products and customer centric offerings once a year to once a month just because they have now a language for it, they know how to go hunt for these problems. But overall, it’s really about speed to market, you do things faster, because you are so connected with the customer that you constantly know what they need, it’s much easier to to deliver new new value. Of course, it drives innovation, it is as a part of an innovation methodology, right. But it also drives as mentioned, customer experience and customer loyalty. So that’s more on the organizational side. And there’s a bunch of research on this as well. That’s, for instance, design driven organization has 211%, higher ROI than non design driven organizations. But I think,

Unknown Speaker
yeah, I believe that

Synne Sogge Stohlmacher
you’re seeing things in a different way. And you have better response mechanisms. So you don’t have to pick up information and act on information in a meaningful way. But I think also not just about the companies here, it’s also about the people that are practicing this. So when you are a team doing design thinking you very often move from kind of being siloed, uncertain about how to utilize information to having a unified approach to listening to customers, finding ways of solving it together. And very often, that includes also speaking better with other parts of the organization, just like Mike pointed out, because you have kind of one way that we’re going to do things and that way is based on the customer lens. I’ve also seen kind of more an individual level that people are really transformed by this and having being able to be creative, because it’s a lot about creativity, how can we unlock that by knowing what our customer wants, and be kind of non judgmental of ideas. It really also unlocks kind of empathetic listening. And I think in sales, this is super important, where there’s a lot of sales professionals we come to, and they kind of they kind of don’t really have that natural, empathetic responses it’s about has been a lot in the past about pushing products, and how can we get more sales? And how can we get more people? But we don’t say it, even though we don’t say it, it really does amount to how are we going to get more pie? And not not everyone? Of course, not everyone? And of course it depends. And some people are very successful doing that. But I think for individuals, having them kind of listening, listening into them and seeing them shift from kind of telling the customer to asking the question customer using these kind of empathetic sales techniques, really, really focusing on how can I understand my customer before I start telling them something? What is the value that I’m trying to achieve here, and maybe the value isn’t what I’m actually selling, but it’s actually what what I’m selling is unlocking for the person either personally, or in the organization. So I think for me, the impacts that I clearly see is, of course, when I interact directly with people, and then the long term effects are also very much there because it does enhance processes offering revenue. But of course, that requires a little bit more time and investment and just the kind of one off engagement or something like that. Yeah,

Pooja Kumar
yeah. So I liked that ROI that you talked about, which was 200 plus percent increase in I think you said revenue, right. So I that’s absolutely right. But more impactful for me on a personal level has been when I’m not like you, I’m not teaching it day in and day out. But but in everything that I’ve done since I’ve been introduced to in design thinking, I’m always taught I’m always looking at how I can bring that into the enablement we do the conversations we have using customer As as truly using the understanding of customer truly as the basis of what we do. So so I think you’re right, it’s on a business level, there is an ROI. But on a human level and, and a personal level, once you understand the process, your ability to drive conversations that are so much more customer centric, and truly customer centric is quite different. Hmm.

Synne Sogge Stohlmacher
Maybe quickly to add on to that Pooja, I think another point is also for for people that works in organizations that are design driven, it also feels a lot better because customers are also internal and external customers, right. So organizations that are truly customer centric are very often truly employee centric money, that employee of that organization, you also feel a lot better. And that also, of course, helps transform organizations. Because when when your employees feels good, then they can serve the customer better to hear it more about value. They want to be at work, which is of course, a huge benefit. I would say every organization out there.

Pooja Kumar
Absolutely. You’re right, soon, and I’m actually collaborating with someone internally to design a design thinking workshop for our managers for next quarter. To talk specifically about some of the challenges that we face in the organization. Yeah. So you’re right, it does make you a lot more centric employee or human centric, overall. Okay, I guess, if there is we’re kind of getting towards the end of this the live session. And if someone wants to know a little bit more about design thinking, where do you recommend them starting with or any resources?

Mike Cannon
Well, I mean, from a ruthless plugged standpoint, I would say visit human Inc, dot CEO, brain,

Pooja Kumar
a great website.

Unknown Speaker
And great people.

Mike Cannon
Yeah, I would say, you know, design thinking has kind of in one sense, in one sense, it has, it has been around, there’s a lot of resources online, I would say from the standpoint of getting closer to DT and trying to really understand how how you can leverage it, my recommendation would be to find an organization like us, where it’s not just it’s not just reading and understanding and digesting, but you actually have some guided mastery and the ability to, to practice with some support around you, I think, what we see in our engagements has been that, that kind of walking with, with people, as they kind of take their first steps and dt is tremendously valuable. And actually, not just knowing what it is, and kind of being able to nod your head and meeting but actually to deploy it to lead others others through it. So there are lots of resources online that can kind of give you an idea of how it works, and maybe the mechanics of it. But I would I would definitely encourage you to to find an organization we do have a lot of a lot of workshops that are online workshops, and and in ruthless plug of you would be happy to connect with anybody who feels like this is something for my team. We can explore. And as we mentioned, I think we were talking before the show. We’ve we have already seen the need for this specifically in sales. And we do have VP courses for VP in sales. And we also have courses for DK marketing, as well as general longer kind of deeper product

Pooja Kumar
design. And yeah, you’ve got I agree, I’ve known you for a few years now. And I know what human does. And I agree you guys have some very superior courses out there that really help people imbibe the culture. And tell me something mica you you guys are based in KL do you serve the world? Or how does how do you? Are you a global company?

Mike Cannon
Yeah, so some so from that standpoint, yeah, we we work globally, we have clients that were kind of serving both in Asia and up. So So our reach, you can kind of say that we were we were kind of ambitious already in that direction before COVID hit, but COVID was a little bit of an amplifier in terms of allowing us to, to to do that. So we all of our interventions are both available physically for those that can but also our interventions are all completely virtual as well. So we’ve we’ve managed to continue to provide outstanding experiences for our clients in both spaces.

Pooja Kumar
Yeah, fantastic. Okay, well, thank you. Now tell me if they did want so you can you give us the name of your website again, Mike?

Mike Cannon
Yeah, so we are human eat.co. co. uk Yeah.

Pooja Kumar
To the YouTube that that produces this as well. Okay. And if they wanted to specifically get in touch with you and say now what can Where can they? Where can you?

Mike Cannon
So I’m mc humaniq. co and Senate is s at Munich co so we’re very easy that way.

Unknown Speaker
I think you as well Pooja?

Pooja Kumar
Oh yes, of course you and you’re both very active on LinkedIn. So there’s MC and F and F s at human Inc dot curve, or LinkedIn might

Synne Sogge Stohlmacher
as soon as a marker, which might be a mouthful, just even spelling it out. Some but if you search for sending human ink, I will probably come up pretty high there.

Pooja Kumar
Cool. All right. Well, listen, you guys, it has been an absolute pleasure having you both talk to me. And I really do hope this inspires a few more organizations to consider design thinking as part of, well, specifically I care about their sales process, but any part of their process within the organization. I hope this has inspired a few people to go and have a look a little bit more into design thinking.

Mike Cannon
Oh, thanks so much Pooja for having us and, and best to everybody. And we kind of extend our, our our greetings and and also just best wishes and crazy time. So

Pooja Kumar
yeah. And also happy Riah for tomorrow, to our listeners who celebrate bryah or eath mobarak.

Unknown Speaker
Last Words,

Synne Sogge Stohlmacher
no, just that was a pleasure being here and and really, really exciting to talk a little bit more about design thinking and sales. And it’s such an up and coming topic, I think so I think there’ll be more, more talk about this. Both in the next year and also beyond.

Pooja Kumar
I agree. Well, listen, thank you both for coming on. And I’ll catch up with you another time. Take care and hopefully we might have you back on to talk about yourself experiences. Design

Unknown Speaker
sounds like a fun one.

Unknown Speaker
Okay, great. Thank you. Bye

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