Jerry Pharr is the Director of Global Sales Enablement at Redis Labs. He stopped in to share the presentation he just did for the Sales Enablement Society Annual Conference about manager-led sales coaching.

Jerry provided great insights on:

1️⃣ How to get executive buy-in for this type of program.

2️⃣ How to structure the program.

3️⃣ The types of materials you will want in place to support the managers.

4️⃣ Key technologies.

5️⃣ Measuring success

And so much more.

Transcript

0:00:03.040,0:00:06.799 hey everybody it’s john the collaborator0:00:04.799,0:00:08.880 and i’m so excited to be here today with0:00:06.799,0:00:10.400 jerry farr jerry did this amazing0:00:08.880,0:00:12.400 session last week0:00:10.400,0:00:15.120 at the sales enablement society annual0:00:12.400,0:00:16.720 conference and before we uh dive into it0:00:15.120,0:00:19.920 jerry did you want to take a second0:00:16.720,0:00:23.119 and briefly introduce yourself i’m sure0:00:19.920,0:00:24.880 hey everyone um happy tuesday0:00:23.119,0:00:26.720 and happy election day to those of you0:00:24.880,0:00:30.560 in the u.s um0:00:26.720,0:00:33.760 jerry farr i am an enablement person0:00:30.560,0:00:35.920 lead enablement at redis labs um0:00:33.760,0:00:38.559 been doing enablement for the last six0:00:35.920,0:00:39.600 years i was at outreach for three of0:00:38.559,0:00:41.600 those years0:00:39.600,0:00:42.879 a lot of folks might know me from that0:00:41.600,0:00:44.960 um but i’m also0:00:42.879,0:00:46.559 recovering salesperson i carried a bag0:00:44.960,0:00:48.960 for about six years as well0:00:46.559,0:00:50.399 um so now i get to do what i love to do0:00:48.960,0:00:52.320 at a great company0:00:50.399,0:00:54.079 you know recovering from sales is a0:00:52.320,0:00:55.520 really hard path to be on0:00:54.079,0:00:57.600 so you look like you’re doing pretty0:00:55.520,0:01:01.359 well though jared so0:00:57.600,0:01:03.199 hi i’m jerry i used to sell things0:01:01.359,0:01:04.479 there’s a group meeting later uh we’ll0:01:03.199,0:01:07.119 meet up right right0:01:04.479,0:01:08.720 um hey you know what the floor is yours0:01:07.119,0:01:09.600 usually i do these a little bit more of0:01:08.720,0:01:11.280 an interview0:01:09.600,0:01:13.040 but jerry’s presentation was so0:01:11.280,0:01:15.520 fantastic that i asked him to come on0:01:13.040,0:01:17.520 and really just run through the same one0:01:15.520,0:01:19.280 i’ll interrupt him and certainly if if0:01:17.520,0:01:20.159 you the audience has any questions along0:01:19.280,0:01:21.439 the way as well0:01:20.159,0:01:22.960 i’d encourage you to throw those0:01:21.439,0:01:23.920 questions in the comments and we’ll0:01:22.960,0:01:25.680 we’ll go from there0:01:23.920,0:01:27.040 otherwise the floor is yours jerry thank0:01:25.680,0:01:29.759 you awesome0:01:27.040,0:01:30.479 thanks so much john all right let me uh0:01:29.759,0:01:33.600 make sure i’m0:01:30.479,0:01:36.240 sharing the correct screen here0:01:33.600,0:01:36.240 there we go0:01:36.640,0:01:40.320 all right and as john mentioned that0:01:38.640,0:01:42.640 this is literally the same thing i did0:01:40.320,0:01:44.240 at a at a conference so pardon the uh0:01:42.640,0:01:45.200 the title there that this is uh not0:01:44.240,0:01:47.520 exactly for the0:01:45.200,0:01:49.200 sales and animal society all right so um0:01:47.520,0:01:50.560 just a little bit more about me for0:01:49.200,0:01:51.520 context because i think it’s helpful to0:01:50.560,0:01:53.040 kind of understand0:01:51.520,0:01:55.200 um what i bring to the table with this0:01:53.040,0:01:57.680 sort of program that we built0:01:55.200,0:01:58.880 um so i began my career as a0:01:57.680,0:02:01.680 motivational speaker0:01:58.880,0:02:02.159 i talked to to hundreds and thousands of0:02:01.680,0:02:04.560 kids0:02:02.159,0:02:06.159 around the country um about leadership0:02:04.560,0:02:06.799 and politics and service and that kind0:02:06.159,0:02:09.520 of thing and it was0:02:06.799,0:02:10.560 wonderful rewarding time my life and uh0:02:09.520,0:02:12.720 then i moved0:02:10.560,0:02:13.680 to washington to become a lobbyist uh0:02:12.720,0:02:15.440 please don’t hate me0:02:13.680,0:02:16.959 um it was a soul-crushing experience i0:02:15.440,0:02:17.760 don’t want i don’t encourage anybody to0:02:16.959,0:02:20.000 ever do that0:02:17.760,0:02:21.599 um and then i kind of pressed the reset0:02:20.000,0:02:22.000 button again and decided i want to sell0:02:21.599,0:02:24.640 things0:02:22.000,0:02:26.640 so i was a a seller you know a full0:02:24.640,0:02:28.879 cycle seller for about six years0:02:26.640,0:02:30.000 um and then i kind of pressed reset0:02:28.879,0:02:31.280 again and said i actually0:02:30.000,0:02:33.200 i want to get behind the scenes and i0:02:31.280,0:02:34.560 want to um help sellers i don’t want to0:02:33.200,0:02:36.959 actually carry that myself0:02:34.560,0:02:38.319 so i’ve been in an enabling role for the0:02:36.959,0:02:39.680 last six years0:02:38.319,0:02:41.440 and most of those been involved in the0:02:39.680,0:02:43.280 sales enablement society0:02:41.440,0:02:45.040 and uh just you know in that enabling0:02:43.280,0:02:45.840 role i’ve kind of done it at three0:02:45.040,0:02:47.360 different companies0:02:45.840,0:02:49.280 first at absolute software and then0:02:47.360,0:02:49.760 about a year there and about a year at0:02:49.280,0:02:52.160 uh0:02:49.760,0:02:53.680 outreach um and now about a year at0:02:52.160,0:02:54.800 redis labs and the stuff i’m going to0:02:53.680,0:02:57.440 talk about today0:02:54.800,0:02:57.920 is the the for my time at redis labs0:02:57.440,0:03:00.720 there0:02:57.920,0:03:02.800 all right so about um this coaching0:03:00.720,0:03:04.800 program that we built at redis labs and0:03:02.800,0:03:06.239 it’s helpful to understand um what is0:03:04.800,0:03:08.319 our business and and uh0:03:06.239,0:03:09.519 you know what are the kind of people we0:03:08.319,0:03:12.480 sell to0:03:09.519,0:03:13.360 so um our product is basically a0:03:12.480,0:03:16.000 database0:03:13.360,0:03:17.760 um and we sell we commercialize an open0:03:16.000,0:03:19.840 source product anybody who’s in0:03:17.760,0:03:22.159 sort of uh you know it probably has0:03:19.840,0:03:23.360 heard of redis as the database0:03:22.159,0:03:25.760 very popular database all around the0:03:23.360,0:03:26.720 world and we commercialize that um so we0:03:25.760,0:03:29.760 sell0:03:26.720,0:03:31.599 to it and to0:03:29.760,0:03:32.959 largely mostly to large enterprise kind0:03:31.599,0:03:35.120 of all around the globe0:03:32.959,0:03:36.319 um the company’s fairly small uh kind of0:03:35.120,0:03:37.920 high growth startup0:03:36.319,0:03:39.519 you know you can see the graph there0:03:37.920,0:03:40.560 kind of the up into the right growth0:03:39.519,0:03:42.400 over the last couple years0:03:40.560,0:03:43.599 so that’s kind of the type of company0:03:42.400,0:03:46.879 we’re at0:03:43.599,0:03:48.480 um and then uh as0:03:46.879,0:03:50.080 any good enabling person does we wanted0:03:48.480,0:03:51.840 to say all right let’s do sort of a0:03:50.080,0:03:53.360 needs analysis to figure out um what0:03:51.840,0:03:54.560 kind of program we should do what kind0:03:53.360,0:03:55.760 of problems we should try to solve with0:03:54.560,0:03:58.480 any kind of program0:03:55.760,0:04:00.319 um so one sort of external factor to be0:03:58.480,0:04:03.040 aware of is um0:04:00.319,0:04:04.159 that the the kind of core legacy product0:04:03.040,0:04:06.400 we’ve sold0:04:04.159,0:04:08.319 um again is that sort of0:04:06.400,0:04:09.040 commercialization of an open source0:04:08.319,0:04:12.560 product0:04:09.040,0:04:14.959 and primarily used for caching and it’s0:04:12.560,0:04:16.479 it’s a great product and has served our0:04:14.959,0:04:17.120 customers well and has served us well0:04:16.479,0:04:19.440 and it’s0:04:17.120,0:04:20.880 contributed to our growth um but that0:04:19.440,0:04:23.440 particular kind of product0:04:20.880,0:04:24.880 um is turning into sort of a commodity0:04:23.440,0:04:28.080 um you can get that0:04:24.880,0:04:29.600 from a number of different places um all0:04:28.080,0:04:31.600 you know solving problems in roughly the0:04:29.600,0:04:32.960 same way um and not a whole lot of0:04:31.600,0:04:34.080 differentiation so people just gonna0:04:32.960,0:04:34.800 people are just gonna choose based on0:04:34.080,0:04:36.639 price0:04:34.800,0:04:38.479 and uh obviously we don’t wanna be in0:04:36.639,0:04:39.919 that place but fortunately we have other0:04:38.479,0:04:40.639 kind of products and solutions we can0:04:39.919,0:04:42.479 sell0:04:40.639,0:04:44.560 and so that’s sort of the the challenge0:04:42.479,0:04:46.400 for us is making sure we’re0:04:44.560,0:04:47.919 transitioning away from that that legacy0:04:46.400,0:04:50.320 product there um0:04:47.919,0:04:51.520 another external factor is this just0:04:50.320,0:04:52.639 everyone all of our customers are0:04:51.520,0:04:55.440 transitioning um0:04:52.639,0:04:56.320 from sort of on-prem on-premises version0:04:55.440,0:04:58.400 of the database0:04:56.320,0:04:59.759 into the cloud and so that’s not only0:04:58.400,0:05:00.880 new for our customers it’s it’s new for0:04:59.759,0:05:02.560 our sellers as well0:05:00.880,0:05:04.000 so those kinds of two things are in the0:05:02.560,0:05:05.680 background that we’ve collected we need0:05:04.000,0:05:08.240 to need to account for0:05:05.680,0:05:09.440 in approach coaching program so then we0:05:08.240,0:05:10.880 said all right well let’s go look0:05:09.440,0:05:13.600 internal and let’s go talk to0:05:10.880,0:05:14.639 our our sellers our managers our leaders0:05:13.600,0:05:16.560 and ask them0:05:14.639,0:05:18.479 uh what things they’d like us to do so0:05:16.560,0:05:22.240 we had uh in-depth interviews0:05:18.479,0:05:24.880 with 20 or some folks asking them0:05:22.240,0:05:25.840 what they’d like to do and the results0:05:24.880,0:05:27.440 kind of put into0:05:25.840,0:05:29.120 uh fit into four different buckets they0:05:27.440,0:05:30.720 said all right you know0:05:29.120,0:05:32.639 you think about from a sort of life0:05:30.720,0:05:33.759 cycle of a wrap here um0:05:32.639,0:05:35.680 we want to make sure there’s a0:05:33.759,0:05:37.759 consistent onboarding program0:05:35.680,0:05:39.759 uh we want to say once they’ve got their0:05:37.759,0:05:41.039 accounts are they doing kind of great0:05:39.759,0:05:44.000 strategic planning and0:05:41.039,0:05:45.600 an account strategy and then uh then0:05:44.000,0:05:46.560 once they’ve got an opportunity in one0:05:45.600,0:05:48.720 of those accounts0:05:46.560,0:05:50.240 are in the early stage actually sort of0:05:48.720,0:05:51.680 doing great discovery and learning what0:05:50.240,0:05:52.080 the business problems are and aligning0:05:51.680,0:05:53.520 those0:05:52.080,0:05:55.840 those problems to our solutions and that0:05:53.520,0:05:58.560 sort of thing um and then finally0:05:55.840,0:06:00.400 uh for late sage opportunities um are we0:05:58.560,0:06:03.039 doing our best to make sure that we’re0:06:00.400,0:06:04.720 um kind of optimizes optimizing the the0:06:03.039,0:06:06.240 likelihood of closing0:06:04.720,0:06:08.080 doing mutual close plans and those kinds0:06:06.240,0:06:10.720 of things so those are kind of the0:06:08.080,0:06:12.319 the the needs and requirements fit into0:06:10.720,0:06:14.880 one of those four buckets0:06:12.319,0:06:16.160 and we built a program to try to address0:06:14.880,0:06:17.919 uh most of those0:06:16.160,0:06:19.280 and jerry just just interrupt you real0:06:17.919,0:06:21.919 quick there sorry so just0:06:19.280,0:06:23.919 just so i’m clear you literally sit down0:06:21.919,0:06:25.360 with your sales leaders0:06:23.919,0:06:27.600 and figured out hey these are the0:06:25.360,0:06:30.240 biggest pain points that they0:06:27.600,0:06:31.759 were seeing and partnered with them to0:06:30.240,0:06:32.880 say here’s how we can help you solve0:06:31.759,0:06:34.560 that0:06:32.880,0:06:36.319 it wasn’t like yeah exactly it wasn’t0:06:34.560,0:06:37.520 like you said hey i think we can do this0:06:36.319,0:06:39.039 let me convince you0:06:37.520,0:06:40.639 it was really just you listening and0:06:39.039,0:06:42.240 saying what do you need0:06:40.639,0:06:44.639 great great question uh i actually went0:06:42.240,0:06:46.639 in with um like a journalist i just had0:06:44.639,0:06:49.680 a series of open-ended questions0:06:46.639,0:06:50.880 um and ask 20 some odd different people0:06:49.680,0:06:52.960 um what are some of the biggest0:06:50.880,0:06:55.039 challenges where the big knowledge and0:06:52.960,0:06:57.360 skill gaps and those kinds of things0:06:55.039,0:06:59.039 and then we just took all those answers0:06:57.360,0:07:01.360 and then this thing emerged0:06:59.039,0:07:02.479 this these four buckets didn’t exist0:07:01.360,0:07:05.759 before those conversations0:07:02.479,0:07:07.360 nice nice yep and0:07:05.759,0:07:09.199 really important i think for all of us0:07:07.360,0:07:11.440 sorry just you know we need to0:07:09.199,0:07:13.680 understand what our teams need0:07:11.440,0:07:15.199 talking listening asking those probing0:07:13.680,0:07:16.560 questions and not going in with0:07:15.199,0:07:17.039 assumptions about what’s going to be0:07:16.560,0:07:19.919 needed0:07:17.039,0:07:21.039 so i love that appreciate it awesome0:07:19.919,0:07:23.520 thanks john0:07:21.039,0:07:25.199 all right so um we took all that0:07:23.520,0:07:27.360 information we said all right um0:07:25.199,0:07:28.960 here’s what you guys told us uh the0:07:27.360,0:07:30.400 needs and requirements are0:07:28.960,0:07:32.080 and we’re going to come up with a0:07:30.400,0:07:34.160 solution that we think can address0:07:32.080,0:07:35.599 most of those things but we kind of had0:07:34.160,0:07:37.120 some philosophical0:07:35.599,0:07:38.720 assumptions and guiding principles0:07:37.120,0:07:39.840 before we did before we even came up0:07:38.720,0:07:42.800 with a solution0:07:39.840,0:07:43.360 um and so one was just the the notion0:07:42.800,0:07:44.720 that0:07:43.360,0:07:46.560 you know our enabling team is pretty0:07:44.720,0:07:48.960 small just like most companies uh0:07:46.560,0:07:51.039 compared to the size of the sales org0:07:48.960,0:07:53.199 so we can get more bang for the buck0:07:51.039,0:07:55.440 basically in trying to enable0:07:53.199,0:07:57.039 managers as opposed to enabling um0:07:55.440,0:07:58.960 actual sellers themselves0:07:57.039,0:08:00.879 um and the second thing is if we are0:07:58.960,0:08:03.520 going to enable managers0:08:00.879,0:08:04.240 we think that actual skill coaching um0:08:03.520,0:08:05.759 is0:08:04.240,0:08:07.680 uh the the single thing that is going to0:08:05.759,0:08:10.160 have the most lift0:08:07.680,0:08:11.440 um and just so our job was to kind of0:08:10.160,0:08:12.800 equip the managers with the0:08:11.440,0:08:14.800 the stuff they need to be able to do0:08:12.800,0:08:15.280 this coaching and then the third thing0:08:14.800,0:08:18.000 is0:08:15.280,0:08:19.199 you know sales manager manager like0:08:18.000,0:08:22.160 coaching is great0:08:19.199,0:08:23.440 and most sales managers do want to coach0:08:22.160,0:08:24.879 and they will love to0:08:23.440,0:08:27.680 but they don’t know how they don’t know0:08:24.879,0:08:29.120 what to do so that it’s incumbent on us0:08:27.680,0:08:30.800 to say all right let’s give you the0:08:29.120,0:08:32.560 the structure and all the things to do0:08:30.800,0:08:34.479 during those actual coaching sessions0:08:32.560,0:08:36.080 so those kinds of was behind in the back0:08:34.479,0:08:37.120 of our heads as we’re trying to say all0:08:36.080,0:08:39.440 right let’s build a0:08:37.120,0:08:41.919 um you know a solution to the to the0:08:39.440,0:08:44.800 needs that were identified0:08:41.919,0:08:46.560 right so points all right so we said0:08:44.800,0:08:49.040 let’s build a coaching program0:08:46.560,0:08:51.279 um and what emerged i mean the essence0:08:49.040,0:08:54.160 of it is that it is a0:08:51.279,0:08:56.000 a series of one-on-one coaching sessions0:08:54.160,0:08:59.120 between a frontline manager0:08:56.000,0:09:01.600 um and here’s her reps0:08:59.120,0:09:02.560 one rep one manager in a live coaching0:09:01.600,0:09:05.040 session0:09:02.560,0:09:06.000 and during that uh during that coaching0:09:05.040,0:09:08.000 session0:09:06.000,0:09:09.440 they we were we kind of built a0:09:08.000,0:09:10.000 structure so that the manager could0:09:09.440,0:09:12.399 focus on0:09:10.000,0:09:13.600 one of three themes or sort of coaching0:09:12.399,0:09:16.320 paths0:09:13.600,0:09:17.360 during that live coaching session so0:09:16.320,0:09:20.399 they either focus0:09:17.360,0:09:21.920 on the coaching path one is that early0:09:20.399,0:09:23.120 stage opportunity development you can0:09:21.920,0:09:25.680 think of a sort of like you know0:09:23.120,0:09:26.320 discovery are they in an early stage0:09:25.680,0:09:28.480 opportunity0:09:26.320,0:09:30.080 are they having a great conversation to0:09:28.480,0:09:31.440 to do discovery and learn about the0:09:30.080,0:09:33.040 business problems and aligning that to0:09:31.440,0:09:36.160 our solutions and that sort of thing0:09:33.040,0:09:38.080 um the second option is you know the0:09:36.160,0:09:39.839 account strategy you know are they0:09:38.080,0:09:41.360 in their kind of top tier accounts are0:09:39.839,0:09:42.800 they documenting and0:09:41.360,0:09:44.880 are they doing research and documenting0:09:42.800,0:09:45.600 a true account strategy and the third0:09:44.880,0:09:47.360 option0:09:45.600,0:09:48.880 is that sort of the late stage0:09:47.360,0:09:50.720 opportunities are they are they0:09:48.880,0:09:52.000 you know doing mutual close plans and0:09:50.720,0:09:54.000 those kinds of things so0:09:52.000,0:09:55.760 in that 101 session the manager is0:09:54.000,0:09:57.760 choosing one of these three paths0:09:55.760,0:09:58.880 and the session today this thing i’m0:09:57.760,0:10:01.040 going to be going through0:09:58.880,0:10:04.160 is how we built out that first one just0:10:01.040,0:10:06.560 that kind of discovery piece of it0:10:04.160,0:10:07.360 and so what that looks like if we said0:10:06.560,0:10:09.279 all right0:10:07.360,0:10:11.040 our goal for this for this slice of the0:10:09.279,0:10:14.320 program is to0:10:11.040,0:10:16.240 equip our um reps0:10:14.320,0:10:17.440 with the stuff they need to have great0:10:16.240,0:10:19.040 discovery calls0:10:17.440,0:10:21.760 and our managers with the stuff they0:10:19.040,0:10:22.480 need to coach reps on those discovery0:10:21.760,0:10:24.480 calls0:10:22.480,0:10:25.600 it certainly makes sense for us to agree0:10:24.480,0:10:27.680 on what good0:10:25.600,0:10:28.959 is what do we think are the kind of the0:10:27.680,0:10:31.120 guiding principles for what should0:10:28.959,0:10:33.200 happen during those initial calls0:10:31.120,0:10:35.360 so we said let’s build a sort of0:10:33.200,0:10:37.440 framework or a guidebook if you will0:10:35.360,0:10:38.800 on what should happen in those initial0:10:37.440,0:10:40.320 meetings we call them initial meetings0:10:38.800,0:10:43.360 instead of discovery calls0:10:40.320,0:10:44.880 the rationale being that discovery can0:10:43.360,0:10:46.399 and should happen throughout an entire0:10:44.880,0:10:48.240 sales process0:10:46.399,0:10:51.120 so we just said yeah this is you know0:10:48.240,0:10:51.120 the initial meeting0:10:51.279,0:10:54.800 all right um so this is a one-page0:10:53.839,0:10:57.680 snapshot0:10:54.800,0:10:59.519 of what is admittedly a very very big0:10:57.680,0:11:01.839 and bulky document0:10:59.519,0:11:04.000 um it’s like 19 pages i think and0:11:01.839,0:11:07.200 growing almost every day it seems like0:11:04.000,0:11:10.800 um but this this snapshot sort of shows0:11:07.200,0:11:12.640 um that the sort of arrows in the quiver0:11:10.800,0:11:15.519 that we are providing reps0:11:12.640,0:11:16.720 in this guidebook um and i’ll0:11:15.519,0:11:18.160 acknowledge upfront there’s nothing0:11:16.720,0:11:20.720 especially0:11:18.160,0:11:22.399 innovative about this anybody who’s ever0:11:20.720,0:11:24.160 done discovery calls or help0:11:22.399,0:11:25.519 reps do discovery calls will say that0:11:24.160,0:11:26.399 this is pretty standard stuff there’s0:11:25.519,0:11:28.160 stuff you do0:11:26.399,0:11:29.440 here’s how you prepare for the call and0:11:28.160,0:11:29.680 then once the call starts here’s how you0:11:29.440,0:11:30.720 do0:11:29.680,0:11:32.320 you know make sure you’re setting an0:11:30.720,0:11:34.000 agenda and that kind of stuff and then0:11:32.320,0:11:36.240 here’s some kind of do some discovery0:11:34.000,0:11:37.120 and then here’s you talk about our story0:11:36.240,0:11:38.720 and then0:11:37.120,0:11:40.160 um then you make sure that you end the0:11:38.720,0:11:41.440 call with next steps and then here’s0:11:40.160,0:11:44.399 what you do after the call0:11:41.440,0:11:46.079 so that flow is pretty standard uh0:11:44.399,0:11:48.160 nothing magical or innovative0:11:46.079,0:11:49.279 but what was powerful is that we said0:11:48.160,0:11:51.839 all right well let’s actually0:11:49.279,0:11:53.200 you know write into this document um0:11:51.839,0:11:55.120 some of the actual0:11:53.200,0:11:56.720 you know kind of questions you could ask0:11:55.120,0:11:59.680 or things you might want to say0:11:56.720,0:12:00.000 kind of a checklist of things to to to0:11:59.680,0:12:01.839 do0:12:00.000,0:12:04.000 and say during each of these kind of0:12:01.839,0:12:05.920 phases of the call0:12:04.000,0:12:08.000 and and that was kind of what was really0:12:05.920,0:12:11.360 powerful and the reps have kind of loved0:12:08.000,0:12:12.480 um but as you as you probably have seen0:12:11.360,0:12:13.600 on here the bun they’re a bunch of0:12:12.480,0:12:15.440 bullets0:12:13.600,0:12:17.200 and each of those bullets has a bunch of0:12:15.440,0:12:20.000 questions and a bunch of stuff0:12:17.200,0:12:21.680 in it um so we had you know our reps and0:12:20.000,0:12:22.240 our managers asking us well are you0:12:21.680,0:12:24.079 saying that0:12:22.240,0:12:25.600 we need to do every single thing on here0:12:24.079,0:12:27.200 is this like a script we’re following0:12:25.600,0:12:30.480 and the answer is hell no0:12:27.200,0:12:32.240 um yes0:12:30.480,0:12:33.760 your discovery calls are now 11 and a0:12:32.240,0:12:35.519 half hours0:12:33.760,0:12:37.440 and and you’re not allowed to let the0:12:35.519,0:12:40.959 customer talk except answer questions0:12:37.440,0:12:44.240 exactly um0:12:40.959,0:12:45.920 so you know it is certainly not meant to0:12:44.240,0:12:47.440 be a script and we don’t anticipate0:12:45.920,0:12:48.639 you know in fact you should not do0:12:47.440,0:12:49.519 everything on here if you if you did0:12:48.639,0:12:50.800 everything on here it would be a0:12:49.519,0:12:53.360 terrible experience0:12:50.800,0:12:54.000 for the customer and for you um it’s0:12:53.360,0:12:55.680 more0:12:54.000,0:12:57.680 the way we position this thing is think0:12:55.680,0:12:59.200 of it as you know a bunch of arrows to0:12:57.680,0:13:02.160 put in your quiver0:12:59.200,0:13:03.200 and we’ve heard guys say we’ve done0:13:02.160,0:13:04.959 similar to this0:13:03.200,0:13:06.880 jerry and that’s why i thought it was so0:13:04.959,0:13:09.839 interesting you know we’ve0:13:06.880,0:13:12.079 we’ve codified this put in the0:13:09.839,0:13:14.000 recommended types of questions0:13:12.079,0:13:15.600 so people wouldn’t have to be so they0:13:14.000,0:13:17.200 could use that to prepare0:13:15.600,0:13:19.040 to your point as opposed to just trying0:13:17.200,0:13:20.800 to follow a script along the way0:13:19.040,0:13:22.160 but i’m curious on how you guys0:13:20.800,0:13:24.560 constructed this0:13:22.160,0:13:27.200 agreed this is what a you know the0:13:24.560,0:13:28.800 reddest discovery call or0:13:27.200,0:13:30.639 initial meetings are going to look like0:13:28.800,0:13:34.959 how did you define this0:13:30.639,0:13:37.360 as a team um well i mean it it’s0:13:34.959,0:13:39.199 it’s honestly just a stuff that my my0:13:37.360,0:13:40.000 manager and i have kind of accumulated0:13:39.199,0:13:41.839 over the years0:13:40.000,0:13:43.040 we’ve done each of us has done this for0:13:41.839,0:13:44.959 quite a few years0:13:43.040,0:13:46.240 um so we’ve kind of coached training0:13:44.959,0:13:47.120 coach reps how to do discovery calls for0:13:46.240,0:13:48.880 a long time0:13:47.120,0:13:50.560 um so we kind of already had a rough0:13:48.880,0:13:51.120 kind of structure and framework in our0:13:50.560,0:13:54.639 head0:13:51.120,0:13:56.959 um that the the lift for us was0:13:54.639,0:13:58.560 filling in the actual content of it so0:13:56.959,0:14:00.320 got it yeah it makes sense0:13:58.560,0:14:02.000 and that’s where we frankly had to go0:14:00.320,0:14:03.680 kind of go to our subject matter0:14:02.000,0:14:05.360 experts our internal reps and managers0:14:03.680,0:14:05.920 saying okay if i’m gonna start doing0:14:05.360,0:14:09.040 some0:14:05.920,0:14:12.399 um discovery questions around um0:14:09.040,0:14:14.000 you know the the business impact of the0:14:12.399,0:14:14.959 current state what would that look like0:14:14.000,0:14:17.839 so we got a bunch of0:14:14.959,0:14:17.839 input on that kind of thing0:14:18.320,0:14:22.320 um and so since this is just a one-page0:14:20.800,0:14:22.959 snapshot of the entire framework i0:14:22.320,0:14:25.120 thought it’d be0:14:22.959,0:14:26.560 helpful to get also a snapshot of if you0:14:25.120,0:14:28.160 were to look at you know one of the0:14:26.560,0:14:29.279 bullets on here what does that content0:14:28.160,0:14:32.320 look like0:14:29.279,0:14:33.839 um so um throughout the document that we0:14:32.320,0:14:35.839 kind of keep that visual0:14:33.839,0:14:37.680 uh visual reference point of where you0:14:35.839,0:14:38.480 are in that kind of thing going across0:14:37.680,0:14:41.519 the top0:14:38.480,0:14:43.519 um and then for each of those sections0:14:41.519,0:14:45.120 the the content actually is in a simple0:14:43.519,0:14:49.040 table0:14:45.120,0:14:52.000 and so the table um has0:14:49.040,0:14:53.199 kind of categories of questions and then0:14:52.000,0:14:54.639 actual sample0:14:53.199,0:14:56.399 you know discovery questions you could0:14:54.639,0:14:57.600 ask if you want to sort of um0:14:56.399,0:14:59.600 talk about that thing like you know0:14:57.600,0:15:01.120 business drivers for example and for us0:14:59.600,0:15:03.040 business driver is the sort of the0:15:01.120,0:15:05.680 external factors that0:15:03.040,0:15:06.240 um that businesses are trying to either0:15:05.680,0:15:09.279 get a0:15:06.240,0:15:10.639 get ahead of or respond to um0:15:09.279,0:15:13.440 and so here’s a category here’s some0:15:10.639,0:15:14.320 sample questions um and then we said all0:15:13.440,0:15:16.639 right well0:15:14.320,0:15:17.680 this is internal notes to our reps why0:15:16.639,0:15:18.959 would you even ask0:15:17.680,0:15:20.800 these kinds of questions what’s0:15:18.959,0:15:21.440 important about this set of questions0:15:20.800,0:15:24.320 here0:15:21.440,0:15:26.320 um and then over on the far right is0:15:24.320,0:15:27.040 things to be listening for you know what0:15:26.320,0:15:28.639 are the goods and0:15:27.040,0:15:30.560 good and bad things to be listening for0:15:28.639,0:15:32.480 if the customer says this that’s0:15:30.560,0:15:34.639 probably a good thing for you awesome0:15:32.480,0:15:36.000 if they say that maybe it’s a bad thing0:15:34.639,0:15:38.320 for you it’s kind of caution0:15:36.000,0:15:39.279 you know red flag sort of thing and so0:15:38.320,0:15:42.240 you can just imagine0:15:39.279,0:15:43.759 you know a table like this exists in you0:15:42.240,0:15:44.240 know every single one of these sections0:15:43.759,0:15:45.920 if0:15:44.240,0:15:47.600 if they’re talking about you know about0:15:45.920,0:15:48.240 the contact person about the company0:15:47.600,0:15:50.399 about0:15:48.240,0:15:51.600 um the project all those sections have a0:15:50.399,0:15:52.880 table like this with a bunch of0:15:51.600,0:15:54.160 questions on it and that’s sort of what0:15:52.880,0:15:55.680 what makes the document really really0:15:54.160,0:15:58.000 long and beefy0:15:55.680,0:15:59.120 brilliant though how how do the sellers0:15:58.000,0:16:01.759 use it jerry0:15:59.120,0:16:03.600 meaning are do they have it open during0:16:01.759,0:16:06.399 the call or do they almost0:16:03.600,0:16:08.240 do they in their head plan out a path0:16:06.399,0:16:10.320 that they’re hoping it’s going to go0:16:08.240,0:16:12.000 knowing that great crap hits the fan0:16:10.320,0:16:13.519 every single phone call0:16:12.000,0:16:16.480 but you know it doesn’t go as you plan0:16:13.519,0:16:20.240 it to how do they use it0:16:16.480,0:16:23.600 great question um so um our motion0:16:20.240,0:16:24.320 is not very transactional we we don’t0:16:23.600,0:16:26.000 have a ton0:16:24.320,0:16:28.000 of new deals we sell you know pretty0:16:26.000,0:16:30.720 large deals to big enterprises0:16:28.000,0:16:32.399 um so that does afford us the the0:16:30.720,0:16:33.920 opportunity to tell reps0:16:32.399,0:16:36.720 okay you are gonna actually do some0:16:33.920,0:16:38.079 research and prepare for each of these0:16:36.720,0:16:40.000 initial meetings0:16:38.079,0:16:41.120 and so it is the expectation that prior0:16:40.000,0:16:44.079 to that initial meeting0:16:41.120,0:16:44.480 they are looking at this document and0:16:44.079,0:16:45.920 kind of0:16:44.480,0:16:47.440 you know putting in their own here’s the0:16:45.920,0:16:47.839 kind of questions i want to be asking0:16:47.440,0:16:49.519 and0:16:47.839,0:16:50.959 we you know they come up with like eight0:16:49.519,0:16:52.560 to ten specific things they want to ask0:16:50.959,0:16:54.079 during that particular call0:16:52.560,0:16:55.600 so it is during that that pre-call0:16:54.079,0:16:57.360 research where they’re0:16:55.600,0:16:58.480 uh using this thing but it’s it’s0:16:57.360,0:17:01.199 unlikely they would actually use this0:16:58.480,0:17:02.720 during the call itself0:17:01.199,0:17:04.799 no and that’s what i was assuming the0:17:02.720,0:17:07.199 answer was you know we’re very similar0:17:04.799,0:17:09.280 large larger enterprise deals they don’t0:17:07.199,0:17:10.880 move super fast they can take you know0:17:09.280,0:17:13.360 nine to ten months0:17:10.880,0:17:14.799 sometimes and um so there’s plenty of0:17:13.360,0:17:17.120 time to get this right and0:17:14.799,0:17:18.079 you need to prepare thank you that made0:17:17.120,0:17:21.199 sense0:17:18.079,0:17:24.240 sure all right um0:17:21.199,0:17:27.439 so in terms of aligning this with other0:17:24.240,0:17:28.319 aspects of our business so another0:17:27.439,0:17:30.480 important0:17:28.319,0:17:31.360 uh kind of parallel project we had going0:17:30.480,0:17:34.400 on0:17:31.360,0:17:36.720 was um rolling out0:17:34.400,0:17:38.080 um kind of a deal qualification0:17:36.720,0:17:40.880 framework0:17:38.080,0:17:42.320 and uh this is you know my boss and i uh0:17:40.880,0:17:44.720 lisa continues my uh0:17:42.320,0:17:47.440 my vp of sales enable and she and i are0:17:44.720,0:17:49.360 both kind of you know sales methodology0:17:47.440,0:17:50.960 um and sales qualification geeks so0:17:49.360,0:17:52.240 we’ve been through all the trainings and0:17:50.960,0:17:54.240 all the different kind of frameworks and0:17:52.240,0:17:57.280 tools and we’ve kind of put our0:17:54.240,0:17:58.880 our own thing together um our own kind0:17:57.280,0:18:01.280 of specialized version of what we call0:17:58.880,0:18:03.360 the deal health checklist0:18:01.280,0:18:04.799 um and so it’s you know a little bit of0:18:03.360,0:18:06.799 medic in there and other things0:18:04.799,0:18:08.559 but we said here are the kind of factors0:18:06.799,0:18:10.880 that uh0:18:08.559,0:18:11.919 tell us whether a deal is healthy or not0:18:10.880,0:18:15.360 healthy0:18:11.919,0:18:17.360 and so you know it in salesforce itself0:18:15.360,0:18:19.600 we built that that deal health checklist0:18:17.360,0:18:20.880 into the opportunity record so as you’re0:18:19.600,0:18:23.120 looking at an opportunity0:18:20.880,0:18:24.640 you’ll see that there are um a handful0:18:23.120,0:18:26.240 of value factors0:18:24.640,0:18:28.160 a handful of people factors and a0:18:26.240,0:18:30.480 handful of process factors0:18:28.160,0:18:31.760 and so on these on these larger deals0:18:30.480,0:18:32.960 the rep is expected to kind of go in0:18:31.760,0:18:34.240 there and kind of say all right0:18:32.960,0:18:36.400 here’s what we’ve learned about their0:18:34.240,0:18:37.600 their current state business problems0:18:36.400,0:18:39.280 here’s what we learned about they get0:18:37.600,0:18:41.760 the kind of results the the measurable0:18:39.280,0:18:43.360 metrics they would like to see a lift on0:18:41.760,0:18:45.360 here’s how i’ve you know tested my0:18:43.360,0:18:48.080 champion and those kinds of things0:18:45.360,0:18:49.360 um and so that actually exists on the uh0:18:48.080,0:18:51.200 opportunity record0:18:49.360,0:18:52.960 so we needed to make sure that the thing0:18:51.200,0:18:54.880 we built into this initial meeting0:18:52.960,0:18:56.400 guidebook was aligned with that so0:18:54.880,0:18:57.919 literally if you look at these things0:18:56.400,0:19:00.960 and you look at the bullets0:18:57.919,0:19:01.600 they align very very closely with the0:19:00.960,0:19:04.160 stuff0:19:01.600,0:19:04.799 that is in here um but again just to0:19:04.160,0:19:07.120 reinforce0:19:04.799,0:19:08.240 we don’t expect that during that one0:19:07.120,0:19:10.160 initial meeting that they’re going to0:19:08.240,0:19:13.120 uncover all the stuff they think that’s0:19:10.160,0:19:13.600 a bad idea but at least they will0:19:13.120,0:19:15.120 uncover0:19:13.600,0:19:16.320 some and we want to make sure that the0:19:15.120,0:19:17.039 questions they’re asking are going to0:19:16.320,0:19:18.799 help them0:19:17.039,0:19:20.480 fill out these uh the stuff for this0:19:18.799,0:19:21.679 deal health checklist of that i love0:19:20.480,0:19:23.360 that0:19:21.679,0:19:24.720 i see that you use all this stuff to0:19:23.360,0:19:26.240 come up with a deal score0:19:24.720,0:19:27.840 and i’m assuming that deal score helps0:19:26.240,0:19:29.440 you determine0:19:27.840,0:19:31.200 does this feel like it’s at the place0:19:29.440,0:19:33.120 where they’re telling us it’s at0:19:31.200,0:19:34.240 or not or did you use it differently oh0:19:33.120,0:19:36.240 okay nope0:19:34.240,0:19:38.160 exactly right um the the deal health0:19:36.240,0:19:41.280 score is basically just0:19:38.160,0:19:43.280 um each of those factors the value0:19:41.280,0:19:45.280 factors people factors process factors0:19:43.280,0:19:47.520 each of those is with uh worth some0:19:45.280,0:19:50.320 points one or two or three points0:19:47.520,0:19:51.679 um and then once they when they do that0:19:50.320,0:19:52.320 that gives them points and it adds up0:19:51.679,0:19:53.840 there0:19:52.320,0:19:55.440 and then you’ll notice on the left is0:19:53.840,0:19:58.720 that um the0:19:55.440,0:19:59.520 the rating it says good so uh there’s a0:19:58.720,0:20:02.720 rating for0:19:59.520,0:20:05.919 caution good and excellent0:20:02.720,0:20:07.280 now do you guys manage your crm to jerry0:20:05.919,0:20:09.120 or did you have to like partner with the0:20:07.280,0:20:10.880 ops team to get this built in or how0:20:09.120,0:20:12.640 does that all flow0:20:10.880,0:20:14.080 uh the sales ops team definitely owns0:20:12.640,0:20:16.880 salesforce um0:20:14.080,0:20:17.360 but um i’ve worked with our um sales ops0:20:16.880,0:20:19.039 leader0:20:17.360,0:20:20.960 uh for years in fact we work together at0:20:19.039,0:20:23.840 outreach so she’s0:20:20.960,0:20:24.480 nice we’ve got outreach part two over0:20:23.840,0:20:26.480 here0:20:24.480,0:20:27.679 um so they know what they were dealing0:20:26.480,0:20:29.919 with0:20:27.679,0:20:31.600 yeah the our teams worked together0:20:29.919,0:20:34.240 really really closely um0:20:31.600,0:20:35.360 it’s a great sort of synergy but i was i0:20:34.240,0:20:36.799 was definitely sort of the0:20:35.360,0:20:39.120 the architect for putting this into0:20:36.799,0:20:41.919 salesforce nice0:20:39.120,0:20:43.360 now how do you coach and i apologize0:20:41.919,0:20:44.240 jerry for taking you off track a little0:20:43.360,0:20:46.480 bit but okay0:20:44.240,0:20:48.159 so i mean this is all amazing stuff and0:20:46.480,0:20:51.520 it all makes a lot of sense to me0:20:48.159,0:20:54.640 how do you coach your leaders0:20:51.520,0:20:56.799 to reinforce the right way to use these0:20:54.640,0:20:58.240 guides and to gather the questions and0:20:56.799,0:21:01.360 to prepare0:20:58.240,0:21:03.440 how do you approach that um so0:21:01.360,0:21:06.320 we on this part of it the deal health0:21:03.440,0:21:09.600 checklist we we purposely did kind of a0:21:06.320,0:21:11.520 a soft launch um we we certainly trained0:21:09.600,0:21:12.720 people unlike here you’re gonna see this0:21:11.520,0:21:14.880 and here are the fields and here’s what0:21:12.720,0:21:16.960 they mean um0:21:14.880,0:21:19.039 but we we didn’t really record there0:21:16.960,0:21:21.360 aren’t many validation rules that0:21:19.039,0:21:23.120 require them to fill out specific things0:21:21.360,0:21:24.480 got it um and we and we there was0:21:23.120,0:21:25.679 nothing sort of punitive about doing it0:21:24.480,0:21:28.480 or not doing it0:21:25.679,0:21:29.440 um but we had a a very strong suspicion0:21:28.480,0:21:33.120 that turned out right0:21:29.440,0:21:34.080 that um the more the higher your deal0:21:33.120,0:21:35.440 health rating0:21:34.080,0:21:38.000 the more likely it was your deal is0:21:35.440,0:21:40.640 going to close so we just waited0:21:38.000,0:21:41.440 a few months a couple quarters and then0:21:40.640,0:21:42.799 went back and0:21:41.440,0:21:44.960 looked and showed reporting and said0:21:42.799,0:21:48.240 look we haven’t really done0:21:44.960,0:21:49.520 much to promote this but you can see the0:21:48.240,0:21:52.640 evidence is clear0:21:49.520,0:21:56.000 um if you the reps who are doing this0:21:52.640,0:21:57.600 um regularly and consistently0:21:56.000,0:22:00.159 they’re the ones who have much higher0:21:57.600,0:22:01.600 close rates um and the managers who are0:22:00.159,0:22:02.480 coaching against us are doing much0:22:01.600,0:22:04.559 better0:22:02.480,0:22:06.320 um so it’s gotten a point now where0:22:04.559,0:22:08.159 managers and we we0:22:06.320,0:22:09.679 there are no technical validation rules0:22:08.159,0:22:10.720 preventing this but the managers are now0:22:09.679,0:22:12.559 saying0:22:10.720,0:22:14.480 wait you’re committing this deal for0:22:12.559,0:22:14.720 this quarter but your deal health rating0:22:14.480,0:22:18.080 is0:22:14.720,0:22:20.000 is caution uh i call bs kind of nice0:22:18.080,0:22:21.280 um so that that’s kind of how it’s0:22:20.000,0:22:23.120 worked0:22:21.280,0:22:25.039 and that’s such a powerful way to people0:22:23.120,0:22:27.760 seeing the success0:22:25.039,0:22:29.600 that’s born out of it convinces them to0:22:27.760,0:22:30.720 take on and take it on themselves i love0:22:29.600,0:22:34.159 that jerry0:22:30.720,0:22:37.039 yep all right0:22:34.159,0:22:37.679 um so that was the the sort of the the0:22:37.039,0:22:41.039 guidebook0:22:37.679,0:22:41.840 the framework itself um and then we said0:22:41.039,0:22:43.520 all right0:22:41.840,0:22:45.760 since this is a coaching program where0:22:43.520,0:22:49.039 managers having coaching sessions0:22:45.760,0:22:51.440 with their reps um we need to0:22:49.039,0:22:52.640 you know yes the guidebook itself is 190:22:51.440,0:22:55.360 pages long0:22:52.640,0:22:56.080 but if a manager is going to evaluate0:22:55.360,0:22:58.000 that call0:22:56.080,0:22:59.600 we need to agree what are the the most0:22:58.000,0:23:01.840 important things the most important0:22:59.600,0:23:04.880 aspects of that guidebook0:23:01.840,0:23:07.440 so um we put together this list of 100:23:04.880,0:23:08.000 criteria we said it you know obviously0:23:07.440,0:23:10.240 we are not0:23:08.000,0:23:12.000 expecting you to do every single thing0:23:10.240,0:23:14.240 in the guidebook during those calls0:23:12.000,0:23:15.679 but at the end of the day the manager is0:23:14.240,0:23:17.520 going to be giving you a grade0:23:15.679,0:23:18.880 they’re literally listening to the call0:23:17.520,0:23:21.520 with you0:23:18.880,0:23:22.720 and and evaluating it against these 100:23:21.520,0:23:25.039 criteria0:23:22.720,0:23:26.159 and you know each criterion is worth0:23:25.039,0:23:27.760 five points so on0:23:26.159,0:23:29.679 criterion number one i’m going to give0:23:27.760,0:23:30.640 you a two out of five on criterion0:23:29.679,0:23:32.000 number two0:23:30.640,0:23:34.559 i’m going to give you a three out of0:23:32.000,0:23:36.480 five that kind of thing and then0:23:34.559,0:23:39.039 what we look at is sort of the average0:23:36.480,0:23:42.080 score uh for each of the criteria0:23:39.039,0:23:43.600 we don’t do a cumulative score um would0:23:42.080,0:23:45.120 and that was kind of purposeful because0:23:43.600,0:23:47.120 it was okay for us that0:23:45.120,0:23:48.559 it’s certainly possible that some of0:23:47.120,0:23:51.919 them might not be0:23:48.559,0:23:54.000 applicable during a particular call um0:23:51.919,0:23:55.760 imagining a future state you know like0:23:54.000,0:23:57.840 imagining a future state may or may not0:23:55.760,0:23:58.799 make sense depending on the conversation0:23:57.840,0:24:03.039 being had yeah0:23:58.799,0:24:05.600 that makes perfect sense jerry yeah0:24:03.039,0:24:07.360 so the manager sorry so this manager0:24:05.600,0:24:07.679 literally set here with a sheet like0:24:07.360,0:24:10.880 this0:24:07.679,0:24:12.559 in a a box to put the score in and0:24:10.880,0:24:13.679 review it as they go through the calls0:24:12.559,0:24:14.960 or how does that actually work0:24:13.679,0:24:16.799 mechanically0:24:14.960,0:24:18.080 uh great question actually we rely on0:24:16.799,0:24:21.200 our technology we use0:24:18.080,0:24:22.960 chorus um to record our calls so a lot0:24:21.200,0:24:24.159 of folks use you know gong or course or0:24:22.960,0:24:24.799 exec vision or one of those kinds of0:24:24.159,0:24:26.640 guys0:24:24.799,0:24:27.840 um you know well i’ve used course for0:24:26.640,0:24:30.400 years i’m a big fan0:24:27.840,0:24:32.559 and so this is actually executed inside0:24:30.400,0:24:34.880 of course0:24:32.559,0:24:36.400 so this here here’s how the coaching0:24:34.880,0:24:38.720 actually works0:24:36.400,0:24:40.640 um so we kind of this is what we’ve0:24:38.720,0:24:42.000 coached the managers on all right so0:24:40.640,0:24:43.360 here’s the stuff i’m gonna go through0:24:42.000,0:24:45.039 each of these sections so here’s what0:24:43.360,0:24:45.520 you do before that one-on-one coaching0:24:45.039,0:24:46.960 session0:24:45.520,0:24:48.799 here’s what you do during the coaching0:24:46.960,0:24:50.000 session and here’s what you do after0:24:48.799,0:24:52.000 that coaching session0:24:50.000,0:24:53.679 and just to reinforce that you know the0:24:52.000,0:24:56.960 all this is dependent on0:24:53.679,0:24:57.279 those calls being recorded um because0:24:56.960,0:24:58.640 it’s0:24:57.279,0:25:00.240 you know during that live coaching0:24:58.640,0:25:02.559 session the managers they’re literally0:25:00.240,0:25:04.400 during that time they’re clicking play0:25:02.559,0:25:05.840 and you know letting it play and then0:25:04.400,0:25:07.039 pause i love what you did here0:25:05.840,0:25:08.159 you could have done better there tell me0:25:07.039,0:25:09.520 about why you went this way instead of0:25:08.159,0:25:11.360 that way and then you know0:25:09.520,0:25:13.600 click play again and kind of move and0:25:11.360,0:25:15.360 keep going so that’s the the0:25:13.600,0:25:17.120 bulk of the coaching session itself is0:25:15.360,0:25:19.520 just listening to that call0:25:17.120,0:25:21.039 um and i’ve had folks ask me okay well0:25:19.520,0:25:22.799 we don’t have and probably won’t get a0:25:21.039,0:25:25.760 budget for something like this0:25:22.799,0:25:27.360 um what can we do and i said i say well0:25:25.760,0:25:30.240 the best you can do honestly0:25:27.360,0:25:31.200 is just have a manager join calls0:25:30.240,0:25:34.159 occasionally0:25:31.200,0:25:35.760 um now it admittedly that doesn’t scale0:25:34.159,0:25:37.440 um but that’s why i0:25:35.760,0:25:38.799 i feel very strongly that you know0:25:37.440,0:25:42.000 course or something like it0:25:38.799,0:25:43.360 is um you know pretty much essential for0:25:42.000,0:25:45.200 me to do my job0:25:43.360,0:25:46.720 um especially if i’m going to do kind of0:25:45.200,0:25:49.440 skill coaching programs0:25:46.720,0:25:50.880 there’s there’s no better way to yeah i0:25:49.440,0:25:53.200 really think it’s reached the point0:25:50.880,0:25:57.120 where i know budgets are a real concern0:25:53.200,0:25:58.960 but it kind of is a minimum requirement0:25:57.120,0:26:01.279 for your enablement program these days0:25:58.960,0:26:05.840 for for most of us anyway0:26:01.279,0:26:08.400 yep yep all right so um0:26:05.840,0:26:09.440 before the call um the we’ve asked the0:26:08.400,0:26:12.720 managers to well0:26:09.440,0:26:14.720 so the rep is um choosing0:26:12.720,0:26:16.559 which calls they want the manager to0:26:14.720,0:26:18.159 coach on and they are submitting them0:26:16.559,0:26:20.400 there’s a mechanism in course to do that0:26:18.159,0:26:21.360 sort of submitting thing and then we say0:26:20.400,0:26:24.640 all right manager0:26:21.360,0:26:25.120 you go in and um prior to the meeting0:26:24.640,0:26:28.080 you’re going to0:26:25.120,0:26:29.440 listen to that call um and kind of do0:26:28.080,0:26:30.159 some analysis and do your own thinking0:26:29.440,0:26:31.919 and the reason0:26:30.159,0:26:34.240 we like that of having them listening to0:26:31.919,0:26:35.840 it beforehand is we want them to arrive0:26:34.240,0:26:37.200 at the at the coaching session with a0:26:35.840,0:26:39.679 hypothesis0:26:37.200,0:26:40.240 um of what specific things they want to0:26:39.679,0:26:41.600 be0:26:40.240,0:26:43.520 focusing on and prioritizing and0:26:41.600,0:26:45.200 coaching on that kind of thing um0:26:43.520,0:26:47.120 now admittedly not every manager does0:26:45.200,0:26:48.559 that they might just they might might0:26:47.120,0:26:49.200 not listen to it beforehand and just0:26:48.559,0:26:51.200 doing it0:26:49.200,0:26:52.480 um in real time during the coaching0:26:51.200,0:26:54.080 session which is okay0:26:52.480,0:26:55.679 you know it’s better than nothing um but0:26:54.080,0:26:58.880 we do like them sort of having a0:26:55.679,0:27:00.480 hypothesis when they arrive um0:26:58.880,0:27:02.240 and we also say like prior to that0:27:00.480,0:27:03.840 meeting is there are other ways you0:27:02.240,0:27:05.679 other things you can look for inside of0:27:03.840,0:27:08.480 course um0:27:05.679,0:27:09.760 that are kind of broad across all of0:27:08.480,0:27:12.640 that reps calls0:27:09.760,0:27:13.200 um the sort of analytics that um you can0:27:12.640,0:27:15.120 say0:27:13.200,0:27:17.279 all right let’s let’s look at your talk0:27:15.120,0:27:18.559 relation talk listen ratio for example0:27:17.279,0:27:19.360 are you talking more than the customer0:27:18.559,0:27:20.720 that kind of thing0:27:19.360,0:27:21.679 what’s your longest monologue what are0:27:20.720,0:27:23.039 your filler words and those kinds of0:27:21.679,0:27:26.159 things and those are kind of0:27:23.039,0:27:27.200 interesting and helpful um just things0:27:26.159,0:27:29.120 for the manager to keep0:27:27.200,0:27:30.320 in the back of his or her head during0:27:29.120,0:27:31.679 the coaching sessions0:27:30.320,0:27:33.200 and so that we’ll we kind of give them0:27:31.679,0:27:34.000 guidance on how to look at these0:27:33.200,0:27:35.919 analytics0:27:34.000,0:27:37.600 and then we say all right now go look at0:27:35.919,0:27:40.960 the call itself0:27:37.600,0:27:43.039 and listen to it um and0:27:40.960,0:27:44.080 here’s how you you actually enter those0:27:43.039,0:27:46.159 scores0:27:44.080,0:27:48.159 in course you say you’ll see those all0:27:46.159,0:27:49.039 those 10 criteria are right here they0:27:48.159,0:27:50.720 enter score0:27:49.039,0:27:52.080 and enter comments to it and the0:27:50.720,0:27:52.960 comments that you enter there are time0:27:52.080,0:27:56.159 stamped0:27:52.960,0:27:56.159 so the rep can go look at them0:27:56.880,0:28:00.960 and so that’s what they’re doing um0:27:58.480,0:28:02.960 ideally before the the coaching session0:28:00.960,0:28:04.799 um and then during the coaching session0:28:02.960,0:28:06.640 uh again the essence of it is just0:28:04.799,0:28:08.480 listening to that call and providing0:28:06.640,0:28:09.679 real-time feedback but we also realize0:28:08.480,0:28:11.600 that you know0:28:09.679,0:28:14.000 you know coaching is not just about this0:28:11.600,0:28:16.159 call coaching we we know that0:28:14.000,0:28:17.600 especially in this pandemic world it’s0:28:16.159,0:28:18.480 important to just kind of check in with0:28:17.600,0:28:21.440 him as a human0:28:18.480,0:28:22.960 right yeah how are you doing so we want0:28:21.440,0:28:25.600 to make sure we check on that0:28:22.960,0:28:27.760 um and then do the actual call coaching0:28:25.600,0:28:30.399 and listen to it and say0:28:27.760,0:28:30.960 and let’s pause and stop and pau that0:28:30.399,0:28:32.559 kind of thing0:28:30.960,0:28:34.320 and then it also say here’s the score i0:28:32.559,0:28:35.840 gave you and here’s why uh here’s my0:28:34.320,0:28:38.799 kind of rationale for that0:28:35.840,0:28:39.600 um and then we want them to sort of um0:28:38.799,0:28:41.760 kind of i0:28:39.600,0:28:43.279 you know collaborate to agree on here0:28:41.760,0:28:44.799 are the you know one or two or three0:28:43.279,0:28:45.919 things that we think we’d like to0:28:44.799,0:28:47.840 improve on0:28:45.919,0:28:49.440 um so you know anybody who’s worked on a0:28:47.840,0:28:50.640 coaching program before knows that0:28:49.440,0:28:52.240 you don’t want to have any more than two0:28:50.640,0:28:53.200 or three things because it’s just they0:28:52.240,0:28:56.399 get lost so let’s0:28:53.200,0:28:59.200 prioritize them yep the biggest things0:28:56.399,0:29:00.399 um and then like what can we do if those0:28:59.200,0:29:01.760 are things we want to improve on0:29:00.399,0:29:04.720 what can we do to actually make them0:29:01.760,0:29:04.720 better kind of thing0:29:04.880,0:29:08.960 um and here’s just another um you know0:29:07.600,0:29:11.440 since0:29:08.960,0:29:12.159 you’re scoring these things inside of0:29:11.440,0:29:15.600 this this0:29:12.159,0:29:18.080 platform called chorus you get to see0:29:15.600,0:29:19.440 kind of week over week how each of the0:29:18.080,0:29:20.399 reps is doing so that’s why you’ll see0:29:19.440,0:29:23.120 this um0:29:20.399,0:29:24.960 you know the average score you know um0:29:23.120,0:29:26.320 week over week you see how rep is doing0:29:24.960,0:29:27.600 for average score for their calls you0:29:26.320,0:29:29.440 see a leader board0:29:27.600,0:29:31.120 you also see over on the right what are0:29:29.440,0:29:34.159 some of the specific criteria0:29:31.120,0:29:35.120 that the team tends to do well on uh0:29:34.159,0:29:36.799 what are some of the0:29:35.120,0:29:38.159 criteria that they’re not doing well on0:29:36.799,0:29:40.240 so all those kinds of things0:29:38.159,0:29:43.440 factor into how that conversation goes0:29:40.240,0:29:45.039 simply wonderful yeah yeah exactly0:29:43.440,0:29:46.000 um so i’m going to skip all this stuff0:29:45.039,0:29:46.880 because i know we’re getting short on0:29:46.000,0:29:48.240 time0:29:46.880,0:29:50.559 and the one thing i want to call out0:29:48.240,0:29:53.919 after the call um0:29:50.559,0:29:54.960 is we do have a requirement for the the0:29:53.919,0:29:57.440 reps0:29:54.960,0:29:58.799 that um in addition to having the0:29:57.440,0:30:00.640 managers0:29:58.799,0:30:02.480 coach them and evaluate their calls we0:30:00.640,0:30:05.520 want the reps to be doing0:30:02.480,0:30:09.039 their own sort of evaluation so we0:30:05.520,0:30:10.000 we ask them to uh evaluate one of their0:30:09.039,0:30:12.559 own calls0:30:10.000,0:30:13.360 and their peers we think it’s super0:30:12.559,0:30:15.360 valuable from an0:30:13.360,0:30:17.200 enablement perspective to help to have0:30:15.360,0:30:18.960 reps think critically themselves about0:30:17.200,0:30:21.279 what good and bad is0:30:18.960,0:30:23.039 um so that’s just another kind of0:30:21.279,0:30:25.520 amazing piece of advice there jerry yeah0:30:23.039,0:30:27.440 yeah wonderful0:30:25.520,0:30:30.159 just just and do they give that feedback0:30:27.440,0:30:31.760 to the rep that they listen to the call0:30:30.159,0:30:33.120 like if i listen to your call would i0:30:31.760,0:30:34.320 give you feedback or would i just sort0:30:33.120,0:30:36.880 of listen to it and go0:30:34.320,0:30:38.480 interesting yeah great question so um0:30:36.880,0:30:39.679 they are allowed to go and enter0:30:38.480,0:30:42.320 comments in there0:30:39.679,0:30:44.080 but frankly i don’t care a whole lot0:30:42.320,0:30:45.120 about the actual feedback they give the0:30:44.080,0:30:47.360 rep who have the call0:30:45.120,0:30:49.120 yeah i’m more interested in what they’re0:30:47.360,0:30:50.799 thinking about0:30:49.120,0:30:53.360 their evaluation process understood0:30:50.799,0:30:53.360 understood0:30:55.279,0:30:58.480 all right so i’m going to go and um get0:30:57.039,0:31:00.320 to the final part here about0:30:58.480,0:31:01.679 lessons learned kind of big takeaways of0:31:00.320,0:31:02.640 this program of this program that we0:31:01.679,0:31:05.679 built0:31:02.640,0:31:07.039 um so number one um definitely big0:31:05.679,0:31:08.480 proponent of0:31:07.039,0:31:10.720 especially when it comes to skill0:31:08.480,0:31:11.440 development uh for skill development in0:31:10.720,0:31:12.720 particular0:31:11.440,0:31:14.399 um definitely want to do whatever we can0:31:12.720,0:31:16.080 to enable the managers not to reps it0:31:14.399,0:31:19.679 just allows you to scale there0:31:16.080,0:31:20.159 um and in in in skill development0:31:19.679,0:31:21.440 programs0:31:20.159,0:31:24.159 i don’t really care a ton about0:31:21.440,0:31:26.320 efficiency now as an enablement pro i’m0:31:24.159,0:31:28.240 i’m certainly i have lots of things i do0:31:26.320,0:31:29.679 they’re helping me be more efficient but0:31:28.240,0:31:31.039 in this particular kind of thing i’m0:31:29.679,0:31:34.399 concerned with their effectiveness are0:31:31.039,0:31:36.559 they having great conversations0:31:34.399,0:31:37.840 um and then selling this internally to0:31:36.559,0:31:39.120 my leadership team0:31:37.840,0:31:41.360 uh this is kind of an interesting thing0:31:39.120,0:31:44.159 is you know0:31:41.360,0:31:44.640 when i train sellers i’m always focusing0:31:44.159,0:31:45.919 on0:31:44.640,0:31:48.880 when you’re having conversations with0:31:45.919,0:31:51.279 customers you got to get to the pain0:31:48.880,0:31:52.240 and then they have more incentive to0:31:51.279,0:31:54.320 sort of move0:31:52.240,0:31:55.919 yeah but i found in selling this in this0:31:54.320,0:31:59.120 project internally0:31:55.919,0:32:00.559 i didn’t selling pain didn’t work um so0:31:59.120,0:32:02.080 instead i had to do the0:32:00.559,0:32:03.919 let’s let’s paint a picture what the0:32:02.080,0:32:06.000 future can be um0:32:03.919,0:32:07.600 because i think when i started focusing0:32:06.000,0:32:08.399 on the pain they got a little bit too0:32:07.600,0:32:11.440 nervous0:32:08.399,0:32:13.279 oh interesting yeah were there any were0:32:11.440,0:32:14.240 there one or two things from a future0:32:13.279,0:32:16.000 state perspective0:32:14.240,0:32:18.240 that you felt were particularly0:32:16.000,0:32:21.200 compelling for for senior leaders to0:32:18.240,0:32:24.559 hear and be thinking about0:32:21.200,0:32:26.559 um predictability if you if you know0:32:24.559,0:32:28.720 improving these calls is going to you0:32:26.559,0:32:30.720 know it’s going to improve0:32:28.720,0:32:32.320 uh win rates against competitors it’s0:32:30.720,0:32:33.360 going to improve it’s going to you know0:32:32.320,0:32:36.320 decrease0:32:33.360,0:32:38.159 sales cycles it’s going to uh increase0:32:36.320,0:32:39.440 forecast accuracy0:32:38.159,0:32:41.600 so all those things i’m like just0:32:39.440,0:32:43.440 imagine you know when we do our0:32:41.600,0:32:45.279 you know forecast for the quarter and0:32:43.440,0:32:48.080 you just if you know with 950:32:45.279,0:32:49.200 accuracy that it’s locked um that that’s0:32:48.080,0:32:50.080 the kind of future state i was trying to0:32:49.200,0:32:51.919 paint for them0:32:50.080,0:32:53.679 and i i wasn’t focusing great a great0:32:51.919,0:32:54.640 deal on imagine them having better0:32:53.679,0:32:56.080 conversations0:32:54.640,0:32:58.000 i was focusing on what are the what are0:32:56.080,0:33:00.960 the results that can be yeah no great0:32:58.000,0:33:00.960 that makes sense sherry0:33:01.360,0:33:04.480 um and then the the structure for it and0:33:03.840,0:33:06.080 this is the0:33:04.480,0:33:08.080 the enablements team responsibility is0:33:06.080,0:33:10.000 say when they’re in those0:33:08.080,0:33:11.679 one-on-one coaching sessions what are0:33:10.000,0:33:12.720 they actually looking at what the data0:33:11.679,0:33:13.919 sources they’re looking at0:33:12.720,0:33:15.600 what are they doing what are they saying0:33:13.919,0:33:17.120 what are the questions they ask um0:33:15.600,0:33:18.559 because again managers0:33:17.120,0:33:21.039 love and they want to coach but they0:33:18.559,0:33:23.200 don’t know what to do so0:33:21.039,0:33:24.159 um and then you know getting alignment0:33:23.200,0:33:26.720 on what0:33:24.159,0:33:28.159 good sounds like um we ended up creating0:33:26.720,0:33:28.880 that that guidebook for the initial0:33:28.159,0:33:30.799 meeting but0:33:28.880,0:33:32.159 uh whatever that looks like for others i0:33:30.799,0:33:33.840 would say you know make sure0:33:32.159,0:33:36.080 you agree with your reps and with your0:33:33.840,0:33:38.240 managers on what good is like0:33:36.080,0:33:39.200 um and that this self evaluations i0:33:38.240,0:33:41.760 can’t implement0:33:39.200,0:33:42.960 emphasize this enough just that the the0:33:41.760,0:33:46.559 cognitive0:33:42.960,0:33:50.080 work it takes to do a self-evaluation um0:33:46.559,0:33:51.840 it really helps out a lot um and then0:33:50.080,0:33:53.600 i think this maybe the last one is just0:33:51.840,0:33:55.679 the a graphic of0:33:53.600,0:33:57.200 in some way to visualize how they’re0:33:55.679,0:33:58.720 getting better um they really really0:33:57.200,0:34:01.440 like that0:33:58.720,0:34:02.640 well i guess not um and we we happen to0:34:01.440,0:34:04.240 use course but0:34:02.640,0:34:05.440 um if there’s any way you can get a0:34:04.240,0:34:06.799 budget for that i’m telling you it’s0:34:05.440,0:34:09.599 really tough to do a program like this0:34:06.799,0:34:11.760 without something like that0:34:09.599,0:34:13.359 and that’s all i got this was phenomenal0:34:11.760,0:34:16.320 jerry it really was0:34:13.359,0:34:17.200 i just i thank you so much for your for0:34:16.320,0:34:19.119 your willingness to0:34:17.200,0:34:20.800 share this with us you know my key0:34:19.119,0:34:22.960 takeaways are0:34:20.800,0:34:24.720 the enablement team has done a hell of a0:34:22.960,0:34:26.720 job at redis of0:34:24.720,0:34:28.240 documenting and training the leaders0:34:26.720,0:34:30.879 which is which is what you’re0:34:28.240,0:34:32.000 talking about making it clear what the0:34:30.879,0:34:34.960 expectations0:34:32.000,0:34:35.599 are for them in terms of how often to0:34:34.960,0:34:38.159 train0:34:35.599,0:34:39.839 uh coach how to coach and all of that0:34:38.159,0:34:42.639 and then just supporting it0:34:39.839,0:34:44.560 it sounds like again with great content0:34:42.639,0:34:46.639 great feedback and just continuing to0:34:44.560,0:34:49.440 iterate and improve upon this0:34:46.639,0:34:50.639 i imagine based upon your experience0:34:49.440,0:34:52.639 that’s wonderful0:34:50.639,0:34:54.079 well um i don’t see any immediate0:34:52.639,0:34:55.280 questions popping up so i guess i’m0:34:54.079,0:34:57.040 gonna say thank you0:34:55.280,0:34:59.200 and thank you everybody who did stop it0:34:57.040,0:35:00.720 and listen jerry really do appreciate it0:34:59.200,0:35:02.000 thank you so much sir0:35:00.720,0:35:05.440 my pleasure thanks john all right have a0:35:02.000,0:35:05.440 great rest of your day bye