Dr. Jeremy Noad joined The Collaborator to share his insights, based upon years of experience and involvement on research, on sales leadership development.

We covered a lot of ground, including areas such as:

1️⃣ New ideas coming out around sales research that you should consider, or at least be aware of.

2️⃣ How to make new sales mangers successful as they transition from individual contributor to manager.

3️⃣ A new book that’s coming out next month. A college textbook, focused on 2nd year college/university students, helping prepare them for a professional life in sales.

Audio Transcript

The Collaborator
But as john Moore the collaborator here again, and I know you’re getting sick of hearing me say that, but I’m gonna keep saying it every day until I run out of really cool people to talk to people like Dr. Jeremy node, right here from the UK.

Unknown Speaker
Jeremy,

The Collaborator
do you want to introduce yourself and just give us a little background?

Dr. Jeremy Noad
JOHN, thank you, Ari, thanks for the opportunity for for coming on the show. I’m really excited to be here. So I’ve been in the sort of sales enablement before, it’s called sales enablement. Sort of 25 years in sales and marketing, going from, you know, literally door to door selling through up to the key accounts and then into sort of the corporate world. And so the past 10 years I’ve been working in what I still call and the company I work for Silikal sales effectiveness, as part of that sales effectiveness is sales enablement. And so, as well as sort of the working life and lead the who I work for, is possibly a company that you’ve never heard heard of. But it’s a fortune 500. It’s what in the top 100 whites in the top 50 market cap companies in the world. We provide pretty much we touch everything that you do. So if you’ve got a chip in your phone, or a touchscreen, or a plasma TV, our products are in that process. If you’ve got to be the hospital that oxygen or gasoline, our products go on the airplane, the mass comes out our products. I love it.

Unknown Speaker
I love it. I never heard of.

Dr. Jeremy Noad
Yeah, as well as things like you’d expect like how to weld things, which is where we started. Yeah, we started with two things, how to weld things, and how to light lighthouses.

Unknown Speaker
When I got I love oil.

Dr. Jeremy Noad
Yeah, something away from whale oil. It was a thing called acetylene. And that’s what we made. And the Gaslight he talked about gaslighted Footlights in the theater. Yeah, that’s what we did. And nowadays, we put the bubbles in your Coca Cola, your Pepsi, or the sodas are available, all that good stuff. But we do that we spent a lot of time in the healthcare area. And so in the current situation, a lot of time, not only on sort of helping the hospitals, gear up with their medical oxygen, but also in that second line. So when people coming home from hospitals, yeah, and needing some support and therapy, that’s possibly us as well.

The Collaborator
You guys are literally involved with everything, then

Dr. Jeremy Noad
pretty much everything we take the air out of the sky and make things with it. so other people can do things. And obviously, one of the big things we have at the moment is hydrogen economy. You know, we we have a network of filling stations and yeah, we’re working with a company by BMW, Mercedes. Are hydrogen running cars to compete with Mr. Musk? Yeah, electric ones. Yep. Yeah, we like those, we get the same sort of range, same sort of cost basis. All it’s putting out is water out of the tailpipe.

The Collaborator
Isn’t that amazing? I’m sorry. That’s the kind of stuff that gets me super stoked.

Dr. Jeremy Noad
Yeah, that because that’s just fantastic place to work. We have lots of quote, clever people. We have customers ranging from sort of mom and pop stores, up to you name it, it’s probably a customer of ours. And so I look at after the global sales effectiveness. And on top of that, you know, I take an interest outside of the corporate world in the sense of, you know, the sales enablement society, started in Washington, but five years ago now, so I wasn’t a founder, but I was a founding member of that. Not as active as I should be, really. But also in the, in Europe, in the UK, as a founder of something called the sales Leadership Alliance, and nowadays, the which is transformed into the Association of Professional sales, which is a sales club, but it’s also the standard setting body. So you know what it means to be a good salesperson, a good customer service person, a good counter person? Yeah, this is the rulebook. And this is how you sort of become that and show that. And we use that as part of our learning path to show that we’re competent, get certified, move up by career pathways.

The Collaborator
I love that. That was a mouthful, but I gotta tell you what most impressed me in the non sales side of the world is how many things Lindy does. I mean seriously blown away by that. Let’s shift the let’s talk a little bit about you have, you’ve had an amazing career In my opinion, in terms of being involved in lots of parts of the world. Probably with different products, and so on and so forth. But and I know you really think about effectiveness from a driving a sales leader from partnering and growing sales leaders, and so on and so forth. What else though, including that would you say is really key to making sales effectiveness or enablement, successful across the globe?

Dr. Jeremy Noad
I think one thing with a salesman is really good question, john. And I think one of the things is, and I think from the starting point of sales, nomen, it became a little bit of a dumping ground. Yeah, the fixture broken things and earnings. And where we sort of tried to keep away from that, certainly from, you know, a global role in a multinational was, we said, there’s sort of three pillars of what we want to do. And those pillars are about building the people having the processes and the systems or tools. And so it’s gonna fit inside those three pillars to contribute. Because the other thing is we also experience a lot of things, which are great solutions. Yep. without a problem. Yeah.

Unknown Speaker
I love that. Yeah.

Dr. Jeremy Noad
Yeah. Well, not necessarily the biggest problem at the time. But it said in the shiny it’s toy at the moment. Yeah. And so we sort of look at this, and we sort of say, Okay, so we’ve worked within those three pillars. And, and it could just be a three by three box, because, you know, nobody likes a box. But then we got to say, Okay, are we trying to address a problem now? Have we got some pain in the organization around? Lead Generation, speed of the pipeline, account management renewals, whatever? Yeah. Is it a problem now? Or is it a case of we have to then look and say, okay, across these 100, businesses that we look after, is something that’s really good that we want to sort of replicate, modify slightly, and leverage across the organization. So we’re sort of looking at the problem now, or what we Yeah, we still call it it’s a bad term, but best practice, but yeah, what’s good? And what’s good enough, everybody? Yep. And then the final bit is what’s in one of the sort of known unknowns, one of the things we need to be aware of, when we get the call to say, yeah, the figures aren’t looking right, or we want to do this, and we’ve got a problem with this, have, we got the little black book of Okay, for that we’re looking at a content solution. We don’t manage that in house, we have this company, that company, who we know, can support our business the way we want to do it, and we just work with that. So the actual role inside that is either we’re coaching people, but being a concierge service. Yep. And for some of the projects, typically, when we got to now pain, you know, a collaborator, so we’re never going to take the lead. Because the business has to own this. Somebody from the business or from the sales team has to be the responsible person. Otherwise, it’s some stuff that somebody from the sales effectiveness or the sales enablement team is doing. And they’re doing it sort of on the side. And it’s sort of it’s more of a hassle for us and that sort of thing. So it’s pretty pushy about saying, No, we’re a collaborator with this. We’re not the owner. Here, we’re going to help you succeed. We’re going to hold your hand, we’re going to do whatever is needed. But it’s your problem. And you’re going to take ownership of fixing that problem.

The Collaborator
How do people react to that? Because I like the model a lot, because too often sales enablement gets dumped in and you set it really well, Jeremy, sort of the fixture of everything. You’re really saying, it’s your business problem. here’s the here’s the playbook. Here’s how we’re going to help you solve that. Here will help you make it happen. Hey, we’ll

Dr. Jeremy Noad
make you happen. Yeah. And the greatest Yeah. Yeah, five words. Every email sort of every email some of this is Yeah, yeah. We employ smart people. Full stop, dot dot dot. Yeah. Because we do. Yeah, you. Yeah. They don’t really want somebody to come and tell them all the answers. They want to have the ownership and things like that. So it’s, it’s recognizing the talent they bring, and we’ll work out what the solution is, they will work out how to make it work for their marketplace, their business. Okay. So that’s how we kind of want to still it

The Collaborator
still I know I oversimplified I’m sure. But do you almost have a virtual a digital playbook of sorts that you say, hey, I’ve seen this problem before. Here’s the general process. We follow? Is it almost that codified in your world?

Dr. Jeremy Noad
Yes, it is. You know, it’s one of my sort of pet projects that I sort of started in 2017 rebooted it every so often. And it’s moved on to different software. platforms, but it is literally a nowadays it’s an interactive SharePoint site. Okay? And whether you want to come at it saying, Okay lead generation or you want to come at it again, looking at Salesforce and walk through that, or don’t you go in different ways, and it’s a lot of points to click boxes, and then you come up there. The end result is there’s always a name of the team person who can help. solution, examples of where it’s happened before, where it hasn’t happened before. And you can go there. And so, yeah, a small proportion. It’s not to be sort of arrogant, or filtering out that small portion of the first inquiry is a templated email back to the country saying, Okay, I think you should look, click on this link and have a look here. See what floats your boat. And then let’s talk about your problem, things like that. Because the things that can sort of self manage, and a lot of the things where we sort of look at the How do you do things and how you can do things better is, you know, people have gotten out in the past, and I have done a sort of, you can imagine how warm and friendly This is when somebody from the corporate head office. turns up in your country goes, Hi, I’m here to help. And you know, you can just feel the eyes rolling in nicest possible way.

Unknown Speaker
Oh, okay.

Dr. Jeremy Noad
Here’s a checklist, see where you’re unhappy?

Unknown Speaker
Yep.

Dr. Jeremy Noad
Let’s talk about what you’re unhappy with. The reason you’re happy with that stuff is because you’re good at your job. You know what you’re doing? You’re fantastic. Excellent carry on. So we use a variety of tools to make sure we focus on the right thing.

The Collaborator
I love that because you’re teaching them. This is probably an American only saying, so I apologize. But you’re teaching them how to fish instead of fishing for them and feeding them. You’re saying here’s the here’s all the tools you need. Here’s how you do that. That’s, that’s awesome. Now, you’ve been a research editor at the International Journal of sales for cheese for what six years? I think it is. Yeah. What what are you seeing out there? That’s really surprising you in there in our space?

Dr. Jeremy Noad
Okay, so yeah, so we started at six years ago. On the back of it, yeah, we were another router saying your sales transformation rather than sales enablement, sales growth. And as we were trying to broaden the scope out, when we were fortunate to have some people who had some things to tell us, you know, academic research, I mean, if you go down the route of getting into the Journal of this after the other and waiting 24 months for it to get approved, and rejected, and half of academic articles, arguments with people, or you can give it to us, we’ll look at it, if it resonates, we’ll let you sort of, we’ll give you a platform to share your ideas of interest. So I look after the research part, so I’m looking at just the vast majority of research is coming out of some really good universities. And you know, in the States, there’s quite a few with Florida State, and IU, Johns Hopkins, amongst others. But you know, Top of Mind, mostly because they’re probably the most recent ones I’ve seen. Have some good stuff coming out. And then you look at it anything, okay. And the audience for the journal isn’t other academics. Its sales professionals and sales managers and sales leaders. So yeah, it’s translated translating the academic special words into this is the story. This is the why, what the how this is why might be good for you.

The Collaborator
Well, so many people aren’t going to take the time to read the detail. So you’re the translator that makes them make so we translate,

Dr. Jeremy Noad
we translate that information. I take all the academic research over that the previous quarter, and almost put a newspaper headline on it to say, Okay, this is what I think Yeah, in my experience, that’s why I think this is interesting. Yeah, I can add, like, you read the you read the level summary I’ve done. If you want to find out more, you go way through the academic or speak to the professor, but you know, we’ll get you that far. But I think the two things that have come up most recently, one is you know, and I started with when when new SPIN Selling was new. Yeah, yep. Yep. Now, we were selling tobacco 25 years ago. Yeah. And that was, yeah. And we’ve seen lots of interations. We’ve seen that Challenger and all sorts of good stuff come through. But I think the trend more now is the recognition and where we have to recognize how we sort of address RNA elements. And our effectiveness is we’ve got to pivot to the buyer journey. You know, and we see these things from different people saying, you know, 60% of the decisions already happened before the sale. Yeah, it takes 10 people to make a decision and yeah, I sit in corporate world and I think only 10 because I You spent some money. Yeah, it did the hundreds. You know,

The Collaborator
the bigger the deal, the more that people certainly Yeah,

Dr. Jeremy Noad
I went times to tough. Yeah, the decision making goes higher and higher and higher. Yeah. So I think it’s about transitioning to sort of being really clear on the outcomes you’re trying to achieve inside the buyers journey, and instead of trying to impose your selling process, it’s trying to insert yourself to become the leader of that buying journey, is the approach. That’s quite novel and work we’ve done on that, but it’s seeing good results. And the other one, again, I like it, because it’s like, it’s what it is when I was reading the first piece about this, and it’s like a really it’s taking sales coaching away from this one to one aspect. I’m making a group therapy.

The Collaborator
What does that look like? I mean, because my initial reaction is a little bit one. It sounds like yours was like, huh, yeah.

Dr. Jeremy Noad
And then you’re looking at Yeah, okay. Let’s split out the deal coaching. Yep. The tactical they have you tried this? What do you think your next step is going to be all that sort of good stuff and go, okay. How do I get this person to adopt a mindset or behavior or do whatever we whatever the capability, we want to the behavior, one of the salespeople, so that sort of behavioral element we like to include in the coaching? Yep. And then you go, Okay, so this group therapy approaches has worked for people with Yeah, yeah. You got you got marital therapy. There’s two of you there plus the drink.

Unknown Speaker
Counselor. Yeah.

Dr. Jeremy Noad
That Yeah, it does. Counselor. You got addiction problems? group therapy? Yeah. behavioral problems. group therapy. Yeah. Okay. So are we seeing a trend to saying okay, but sort of this the sales behaviors and changing the mindset, building the resilience, being able to exhibit the trust the ethics and showing how you do that to a customer, which makes a real big deal nowadays? Is it better trying to do on a one to one basis? Or is it better doing it as a circle of peers and coming together to share experiences, help each other things like that? And therefore you’re thinking like, that’s quite novel at the moment. But that could be a thing. Yeah. But then you look at who we hire in sales, and you go, maybe not a thing, but it’s probably something that’s going to get some exploration. And I see they’re going to die a quick death, or it might be a big thing to go and look at.

The Collaborator
Yeah, I’m not nearly as smart as you are, Jeremy. And I mean that because you have a PhD, you have a doctorate, and I have a bachelor’s degree. I know it doesn’t equate to 100% intelligence. But what I would say is, I want to experiment with that, what you just shared with me, I said, Well, I want to try that out. So at least I will try it out at a curiosity, because my initial gut reaction is that’s never gonna work. But my gut reaction is only right about half the time.

Unknown Speaker
I want to try it.

Dr. Jeremy Noad
Thank you say that if you got the top 10% performance in a room? Yeah, I did sort of like your own color group therapy. coaching session. Yeah. But you get in and say, Okay, let’s let’s work. We are one of the problems we’re facing. What are the ideas that are fixing the problems, which is basically what we’re doing coaching is, basically, it’s a therapy. Yeah, then you get something that you may be able to translate to the the next call tile and the next call tile. That’s why I think it might have something it’s interesting. It’s interesting. I

The Collaborator
may play with it a little bit in our business, just for curiosity sake, you know, shifting shifting again, though, you were very clear, when we spoke about sales, leadership development. You know, that’s where you wanted to focus, because that’s where you think there’s a lot of value. Why is that a really important area to focus on?

Dr. Jeremy Noad
Okay, you can see lots of examples, because, you know, you look at the tenure, the tenure, the salesperson on average is about 18 to 24 months. Yep. The tenure of a sales manager. sales leader. Why? Because 14 to 16 months. Yes. Terrible. Yeah. So people are chopping the the sales managers out quickly. Yep. Yeah. The the ability to impact the team. And is it a reflection of sort of, like the sport mentality, where it’s like, yeah, the team didn’t win the pennant. Let’s get to the coach. Yeah. Yeah, it could be the best coach in the world. Yeah. But what I found in real life is Yeah, yeah, there’s lots of stories about it, but I genuinely have found it in real life is if you have a poor sales team And you put a good manager, it’ll make a difference. If you have an exceptionally well performing team, you put a poor manager in. The only way is down.

Unknown Speaker
Oh, they both make a difference.

Dr. Jeremy Noad
Wow. Yeah. And when we seem to draw out a lot of these sales managers, this is we, we say, hey, you’re really gonna hit a target. He must be the sales manager. Every single time like itching target, checking the money. Why don’t listen, Bob motorway about this. And the other one is quoted everything else like that. And so, yeah. Are you taking the right people for the right reason? And so we looked at it and sort of say, okay, we did, and we did some programs of development for the salespeople to you know, in negotiation, your sales pros said, Yeah, I saw that. And we did. And we sort of said, okay, coaching is the way and we spent a huge amount of time and effort, trading coaching. Yeah, and we measure coaching, and we talk about coaching, in order Matt Stein, to the sales teams and the sales managers, but then you go, okay. And again, I think it’s sort of a problem from the past 10 years. We give more CRM, and they’re getting quite good now with the Salesforce dynamics, Oracle, whatever it may be, yeah, Cheryl, and I say, and this, the Oracle guy comes along and says, Hey, here’s your dashboard for this. Hey, she dashboard for that. And the guy goes, great. That’s a pretty picture.

The Collaborator
I’m laughing because it’s true. It looks great. What does it tell me? Yeah.

Dr. Jeremy Noad
And and that’s the thing. And so yeah, so our starting point was, you know, we have all these KPIs. And yes, you can tell me the 3.2 as your KPI for x. Fine. So what is it good? On? You know, my boss’s boss at the time was very clear. Yeah. Yeah. Do I need to do anything? No, I don’t care. I don’t need to do anything. Yes. Okay. Okay. Yeah. And it’s not the KPI is not the dashboard. It’s not the graph is absolutely nice. It’s the so what. And so our first starting point in terms of developing ourselves, sort of sitting there and say, here’s a metric. Here’s what it means. Here’s what it should look like. And if it’s going, if it’s improving, great, if it’s going that way, that’s the gray, you probably need to look at this, this and this. And we started that as sort of like a two page slide, two slides. And it became a sort of whole training course in itself. On top of what the finance guys do on the, you know, this is a profit loss. And, yeah, but it’s sort of Chase is tying in the so what of what your information is to be doing to work out your next best action. And so it’s sort of saying, Okay, this is what you’re looking for the easy choice, this is what you could be causing it easier next session, and how you build the skill set. And so we’re training them about how they can join the dots on those? Because you go, yeah, they’re smart people. And then, you know, yeah, and we load them 122% of capacity, because we want to get the maximum out of them. Yeah, they don’t have time to think about these things. Unless you make it quite simple. I want you to Yeah, I want you for the apps that sell on it, because they know it, it’s just no one I love

The Collaborator
that. Because it’s just another example of what you did with sort of the, you’re having this problem, here’s how you solve it, just a really quick place for them to understand. Here’s what this business metric means. Here’s why I care about it, and how I fix it. You’re giving them the roadmap to follow, more or less, which is brilliant. And all of us talk about being smart in that way. But few of us take the time to build that out. Jeremy.

Dr. Jeremy Noad
Yeah, early on, we need to build it out. Because you know, our purpose and we stole this, you know, of, you know, our internal teams logo. Yeah, we started off a guy called Michael Hyatt. Yep. Yeah, we want this to be your best year ever. And next year, we want that to be your best year ever. Yeah, what we’re trying to do is make it as easy as we can for you to do what you know you can do. And that’s our thing. And so then we sort of then we sort of looked at things like team performance and how to make it seem how to sort of deal with disruptive teams, how to deal with virtual teams, and all that sort of good stuff. Just to sort of put possibly some sort of generic either finance or HR, through the lens of a sales organization. To make it more resonate a bit more bit a bit more meaningful. And to do that, then you sort of feel that you’ve, you’ve helped and given them the best opportunity to succeed. And then you do all the other stuff around the systems or tools or processes. Yeah. Get them to own their bits and pieces. And hopefully you get a stronger sales leadership team. And you get a stronger team, you get a higher performing sales team.

Unknown Speaker
I love it. Jeremy,

The Collaborator
you know, I’m going to, I’m going to ask you sort of two questions at once and let you attack in whatever order makes sense to you. You touched upon something that we all see the best sellers get promoted to managers, whether they should or not. So that’s part of the question is, how do we make sure that they’re successful in that in that transition? But the other part of the question or the second question altogether, is, can we do a better job of identifying who we should have promoted in the first place?

Dr. Jeremy Noad
Yeah, I think because he, because he moved away from this idea of being the performer to sort of the orchestrate the orchestra, the conductor of a bunch of people. Yeah. And you’ve got to look at it and go around to different things. And so, I one of the things we’ve just been exploring, most recently on the back of the crisis. And as the approach we sort of started with the sales managers, and that transition is, yeah, the teams have moved. Yeah, for a period of time basically moved from Field Sales to inside sales overnight. Yeah, yeah. And they will go with field sales people. how we feel. So we’ve got to get out there and that sort of thing. And basically, we take the view that you got to re onboard them, you’re just going to shred it away. Love unreal, Mormon. So as you know, you’re incredibly valued account manager or sales, rep, your SDR, whatever you might be. But real more than to say, Okay, this is how we need to work to be successful. Now, this is what zoom is, this is what it doesn’t do. This is what happens when you leave your mic column, and you’re doing side chats, all that good stuff. happens when you’re when your son walks through the bit in the background, you know, the bathroom, or whatever. But all those things and about how to sort of transition through. And it’s a re onboarding and saying, actually, this is so significant, we want to just go back to the grid. And so you say, okay, congratulations, you’re a sales manager. Okay, you’re not a superhero anymore. You’re not at this. Okay, let’s go back and say, Okay, what are the three most important things to your sales manager? Okay, how do you feel about that? What do we need to do as a whole real onboarding of it. And I think one of the one of the ways to pick out who’s going to be good, or who we should sort of have noticed, over and above just that wonderful sales figures. It’s when we think about the sales enablement, projects, whether it’s sort of rolling out the next lot of content, or the next gateway on your hiring, or whatever it may be, is we get these people involved as part of their development. And they start to see a bit of the bigger picture of how either the organization works, or how a sales team works. And if they’re not doing that, before they start, they’re pretty much doing it immediately. Because they haven’t, you know, reached that spiritual point of, yeah, we know everything you don’t it didn’t work last time. It ain’t gonna work this time. They’re still quite, they’re still, they’re still naive enough to then go Yeah. Is it? Is it a new idea? We might go and work at this time? Yeah. But, but yeah, but yeah. And then we look for how they sort of think about their role. And, you know, in that previous, I’m gonna use bits of this. And you might like in the mind now, and to be honest, it’s probably more how I talk about these things in the shade. Everything in the organization, but sure, as a salesperson, You are the hero of the story.

The Collaborator
Agreed. You’re a team of one now it takes a team to win the deal. But a lot of times it’s the I’m the hero, I’m the champion. I’m

Dr. Jeremy Noad
the hero of the story, and everybody else is that and yeah, and then you’ve got to move and say, Okay, can you become the Sherpa guide, as it were? Love that? Yeah. You were Luke Skywalker. You’re now Yoda. You only in the movie a tiny little bit. You have a very meaningful planning. You do some coaching? Is anyone is weighed out and about again. Yeah. So you move me through that. And so it’s about that sort of shifting mindset. From it all being about you and your achievements and the fact that you’ve got that price. You got that deal. You did whatever you did, to the fact that actually, it’s about helping others become the heroes, because they will then make you the hero of the story in front of your boss. Exactly, exactly. So, hi. Yeah, um, we haven’t used assessments to a great deal. Yeah, there’s some good stuff by Charlie and people like that. Yeah, really intricate, I think we’re really well founded. We I haven’t used, it hasn’t sort of come up to us in terms of saying it’s a need. But there are ways of doing this sort of profiling are there. And I’m sure that works. And I think they’ll probably work a great deal. But we don’t use that. So we think about more about your behaviors, your engagement, and whether you sort of display the characteristics. I mean, yeah, we haven’t documented but you know, the characteristics to sort of become that sort of guide that shirt, but I’m with purpose, but recognize you have to do things.

The Collaborator
So it’s really about looking for those skills, reinforcing that mindset, I should say, not skills, looking for that mindset and reinforcing it. So that the thinking broadly for the team, and I really love the almost a re onboarding approach, they went through Jeremy, you know, I was still I was a superstar seller, now I’m a sales manager, you need to teach me how to be a great sales manager. And that just makes a whole heck of a lot of sense. I’m gonna, I was gonna ask you about metrics, but I’m gonna skip that for a second, because we’re already 33 minutes in, and I like to keep these close to 30. So what I’d rather ask you about is talk to me about this book I hear you’re working on.

Dr. Jeremy Noad
Okay, so yeah, we’ve got a book coming out. And, you know, a bit of a side project, but linked to sort of the work on the research and the sales transformation and our work. Yeah, the work in the Association of Professional sales. So in the UK, as part of the European, we work sort of for the past few years to sort of classify and work out what the standards are for pretty much every role from the counter service, customer service agent SDR sales, what skills what behaviors, what knowledge? And that went through a whole bunch of stuff out? We got it accredited by by the government. So the government turned around and said, yeah, that is a national standard.

The Collaborator
to everybody involved, just just

Dr. Jeremy Noad
out of curiosity, to work. It came, and then they go, Okay, how are people going to get qualified, and then somebody, somebody else goes off and says, okay, we can we can build the course. And we can teach this and teach them? And they go, Okay, what are you going to teach him? And so I was a great colleague, who supervise me through my sort of Master’s, my PhD, Dr. Beth Rogers, we wrote a book, and we write a book, which basically is aimed at, you know, in the US, it’s probably aimed at the sophomore year. Yep. And it’s your textbook around becoming a sales professional. And so we call it selling professionally, a guide to becoming a world class salesperson. And we take it and we break it down into sort of the knowledge skills, behaviors that you need. And we sort of a little bit about prospecting a little bit about sales processes. And yeah, we’ve had some people read it so far. Yeah, it’s useful for if you’re experienced, it will remind you, I think what we try to do for experienced salespeople is to remind you, that how good you were to get to where you are. Because as soon as you get there, you kind of forget your kind of corner to experience.

The Collaborator
I agree, you learn the hard way. And then when you get there, you kind of forget the easy way, you know, it just goes out the back of your brain.

Dr. Jeremy Noad
And so we go through that, but it’s mainly Asia, these these 19 2021 year olds, who, you know, a lot of universities have courses around marketing some other sales elements. So in the in the Europe, there’s a number of specific sales degrees now, but it’s always a minor. It’s a minor subject in Yeah, in marketing. So it’s about saying, okay, that’s the qualification. You can either do it through work experience, things like that, but here’s the book and we try and make it so you know, it’s a chunky thing. You know, I think somebody said are the best books are about 200 pages long and we’ll double that

Unknown Speaker
it’s got to be twice as good.

Unknown Speaker
twice as good because

Dr. Jeremy Noad
it’s gonna hold the door open so much better. Oh, my God.

The Collaborator
That’s you know, by Jeremy. That’s awesome, though. That is awesome. And congratulations to you. You said it’s what about a month

Dr. Jeremy Noad
coming out in September is going to be in Amazon in the US Amazon in the UK, in Europe and things like that. But yeah, aidid attacks is aimed to cover the syllabus of of what these academic qualifications are about sales. But we’ve kind of written it with the actually, you start saying you start reading this book out as a 20 year old in your workplace and say, This is what we should be doing. They’ll kill you. So we’ll make it a little bit more business in a bit, a little bit less academic about it. So yeah.

The Collaborator
I love it. Congratulations. I look forward to seeing that book. Come out. Hey, Jeremy, thank you so much for your time today.

Dr. Jeremy Noad
It’s been great. Thank

The Collaborator
you. It’s been fantastic. And I gotta be honest, as always, not disappointed one a lot. So I hope everybody else did too, as well. It was listening in. Thank you again, Jeremy. Have a great rest of your day. Thank you, everybody, for listening in. Appreciate you. Bye bye.

Dr. Jeremy Noad
All right. Thanks so much. Thank you.