A four step sales enablement process

The Collaborator set with Bob Britton, President and Founder at Sales Enablement Sherpas, LLC as well as the Director of Sales Enablement at Netsurion.  Bob shared his fantastic four step sales enablement process, something others should be checking out.

In this interview, Bob shares his thoughts on how enablement should be run, as well as lays out a four step process to agile and incremental enablement progress.    What are these steps?

1️⃣Triage – What’s going wrong in sales, what’s missing?  Sales Coaching?  Training?  Content?

2️⃣Diagnosis –  Look at data and user feedback, baseline sellers, etc…

3️⃣Prescribe – What are the solutions to what has been identified?  Priorities?  How much will you fix?

4️⃣ Treat – Start executing against the prescribed and agreed upon plans.

If you are in sales enablement or revenue enablement, it’s worth digesting those four steps and considering how to use those as a part of your own efforts.

The Collaborator : 0:00

John Moore, the creator here again, this time I’m fortunate enough to have as a guest for the bob Britton. And I was Bob and I were laughing before we get on this meeting. Because the only time I think we’ve actually had an in person conversation I was telling him was, was at the last national sales enablement society event. Bob is just one of the funniest nicest people I had the chance to chat with. But we never seem to get in person together. So I hope this COVID madness is behind as soon so we can finally get there because there’s so many cool people in the space. And you’re one of them, Bob. So But anyway, you know, I wanted to give you a chance, I think a lot of people in enablement are for me with who you are. But for those that aren’t you just want to maybe give a brief introduction.Unknown Speaker : 0:44

Sure, I’m one of the members of the Island of Misfit Toys which is known as sales syndicate. Okay. So it’s kind of funny that none of us that are in sales enablement ever imagined ourselves actually saying In a career saying I want to go into sales enablement, we all fall into it. Right? And so no, but then. So, you know, we can talk a little bit more as you go along here about what sales enablement salt really is. But yeah, so I’ve been in the sales enablement space, whatever you want to call it for the past, let’s say 10 1012 years or so. And then prior to that email sales, and then prior to that I had other careers. So yeah, it’s a well rounded person, I guess you might say, I love I love your definition of the misfit toys or the description of the field as the Misfit Toys, because I think so many of us feel that way. Oftentimes, it’s like, we’re not we’re not necessarily experts in one thing or another. We’re really good at solving multiple types of problems, at least in my opinion. Which which, which brings me to you know, there’s a main one definitions of sales enablement Bob And then to maybe by the time we finish talking, I’ve written one, you’ve probably written one everybody, this one’s written one. What does it mean to you, though? You know, when people are thinking about enablement, in your opinion, how should people be thinking about it? Yeah, I think one of the big, biggest problems we have and we’ve been wrestling with this and the sales enablement society, even people get wrapped around the axles of definition. Yep. You know, and so the problem with definitions, of course, is that sometimes you can define you define yourself right into a hole and right out of what it is you’re really supposed to be doing. Right. So I have really just tried to stay out of the definition hole, but sometimes they need something to actually go on. Yeah, here’s how I describe sales enable people I say, from a definition standpoint, sales enablement is about looking for friction in the organization that slowing down sales and mitigating love that period. Now, the trick here of course, is that the friction can come from anywhere in the organization it can come from, you know, the l&d marketing sales Ops, the C suite it even facilities, you know, so the friction can come from anywhere. And so the way I describe sales enablement to people helps them understand a little bit better. It’s like this. You’ve seen these rolling skulls that they use in the universities and the Olympics. Yeah. So picture a rolling skull with all kinds of people lined up in a row there. And all of the crew members are some disparate functionally organization, marketing it like I said, all those things, contracts, legal, whatever. Yeah. Every one of them has an oar in their hand. And every one of them wants to make that racing skull go toward the finish line. But here’s the here’s the problem. One, they’re all facing the wrong direction. Okay, yeah. They’re all putting their oars in the water at different times. They’re getting their oars crossed. Everybody has a different power stroke. Everybody has their own tempo in their own head. And so the boat just winds up doing circles in the water or sometimes flips Over a dozen goes off course what have you who is sitting at the back of that racing skull? It’s a Coxon. Exactly Yeah, okay, in this analogy that Coxon is the one that is calling out the rhythm, making sure everybody’s trained properly, making sure that the orders are allBob Britton : 4:25

line, that Coxon and this analogy is what sales enablement should be.Unknown Speaker : 4:30

That’s interesting. You know, I love that analogy. I, you know, I live just outside of Boston. here in Massachusetts, we have the head of the Charles every fall with all the boats that come in. So as soon as you set it on, like, I know where he’s going, I love I love where you took that, Bob, you know, what do you think? And I think that is a really good analogy. I think, you know, the sales enablement team is certainly trying to be that, that glue in the organization that keeps everybody going in the right direction. Cox and I think that’s such a good way of saying, you know, tell me a little bit about it because you’re you run sales enablement, you’re the director of sales enablement. And you have your own business called sales enablement, Sherpas. So you see enablement. You eat, drink sleep sales enablement. And you’ve been doing it a long time. You know, tell me a little bit about how what you’ve learned on one side may have helped you in another or along those lines, Bob? Sure. So what happened with sales enablement? And the evolution of it, I guess is one way you actually might want to look at it. Yeah. First of all, sales enablement is one of those things you ask 10 different companies what it is you get 13 different answers. Okay. Yeah, you don’t get 10 but there’s a reason for it people are people are defining it based upon the problem digital, you know, so if you’re about to make a large number of hires to them, sales movement is onboarding. If you’re having problem with CRM data option to them sales, nimble, it might be sales ops, you know, so they’re defining it not necessarily in a large capacity or the strategic view, they’re defining it very narrowly, as far as like a program or a project even sometimes, right? Yeah. And so what we have to do is we have to take a look and see what the impact is that we’re actually having on the organization. Okay. But it’s not so much about, you know, the, the financial impact, it also has to do with the behavioral impact. one of the toughest things of doing sales enablement is to try and make that direct connection, the causal connection between, here’s what we do, and here’s how it impacts the top line. Because it really is what we’re doing right? We’re all about top line revenue generation. But the problem is that you can’t make that direct connection because there’s too many factors that go into it. What we directly affect are things like various sub processes, behaviors of people things along those lines, but those don’t typically show up on the dash For many c suites, so you know what we wind up having to do internally as sales enablement professionals, we have to learn how to serve certainly. We have to learn how to sell our way. Yeah. And you know, one of the toughest things you can do is to sell internally. And that’s what we have to get better at selling externally is different from selling internally in this what we need to get better at, as a profession is how do you sell it sell ourselves internally? Yeah. And you and I were having a good conversation on LinkedIn the other day about that. But I thought it was a good conversation. You’re probably thinking, geez, that was terrible. JOHN, you drove me crazy. But, but but I agree with you, I think I think a lot of what we need to do is you’re right, we have to be great sellers. We have to discover what the problems are. We have to position ourselves to help solve those problems. And we have to continue to talk about value and raise up the value that we’re creating. You know, how do you do that? How do you do that? Whether it’s where you’re working today, Bob or elsewhere, how do you help? Or how do you do it? And how do you help teams think about it? You know, the first thing you got to understand is what a value is, right? Yep. Doesn’t make any difference what we think the value is value is defined by the person consuming. Yeah, great. Okay. So we have to get out of our own skin and out of what it is that we feel that we’re doing really find out what it is that they want to have happen. And then we have to appeal to it. You know, when I’m when I’m working with organizations and helping them understand the value conversation and what that really means. Yeah, there’s really two kinds of value okay. The first value is the point in time value. Where I have an immediate need, would you help me with that? Sure. Here you go. The problem with just selling to that type of value a lot of people say the word pain Help Help them cure their pain is if what you do is you go in and new cure pain. How do you suppose the the client in front of you is viewing you like a painkiller? Like, like a dentist right? Now often do you want to see your dentist outside of the fact that you have pain? checkup? Never. Yeah, exactly. Okay. But so what you need to do is you need to understand, you know, a basic premise here, which is that people are going to pay absolute rock bottom dollar for what they need. But they are going to pay more, they’ll pay a premium for what they want. So there’s two values here, the first value is solving their immediate pain. The second value is trying to find out what it is that they actually want, and then meet that, that that as well. That way, what you’re going to do is you’re gonna have a value conversation based around them where they want to take their organization. Yes, yes. So that’s where we need to go. So often what I’m throwing up all over here, and I need to do that, but not Oh, it’s great, Bob, because it’s great. It’s great. Please continue. Okay. So you know, one of the biggest issues that we see right now for example, is This flood of technology is coming into sales enablement. And you just look at like Nancy lardons graphic about the mahr tech space. It’s gone from like 400 to 5000 things that are out there, right? So it’s through all the noise. So when I’m working with people and I want to in, you know, get a new technology going, what I do is I say, Okay, look, most technology, first of all in our space is geared towards the top of the funnel. A lot of it is a lot of it is yeah, it’s geared toward Where are the people? Where can you find them? How can you meet with them set the appointment? Yeah, that’s the bulk of it all. And the further down you go into the funnel, the less and less, you know, the the technology is actually helping because that’s the hard stuff too. So it’s easy to build those top of funnel tools a lot of times insurance. So the value that you’re getting out of it. Matter of fact, what a lot of this does is It’s something creating log jams up top. It’s, you know, a person can only handle so many conversations, right? It might have an SDR team and then maybe even automate the whole thing with AI. And you might be able to do 600%, one seller 600 appointments in a week. Seller can only get to 10. Sorry. You know, so so well said and you know, I know a lot of us talk about or at least a lot. Yeah, a lot of people talk about lose fast. I mean, there’s a lot of business you don’t necessarily want to get to because you’re not going to win it anyway. So help them prioritize those conversations, and not to steal your thunder Bob, please continue. But I can only you can only scale a human being so far. That’s right. That’s right. And so what winds up happening is you have you have this situation where most of the technology that’s being applied right now being button used, is really geared toward helping the internal efficiencies of the organization. using it. Yep. What they need to be doing is looking at how when they purchase this technology, how is it going to impact and improve the effectiveness of their customer. So I buy this and you got to be able to make that translation to there is how it helps my customer do better. Otherwise, all you’re doing is focusing on the bottom line, all you’re doing is cutting up the the waste by by improving your efficiencies. And it doesn’t do the end customer darn good especially if it’s not geared toward that or your, your sales staff simply cannot make that make that connection. Well in for me, I always think about enablement as our I’ll say it this way our customer is the buyer or the customer of the company. We support them by enabling the sellers, the customer success, people in the other parts of the organization, to have the right conversations and all of those sorts of things. We do. But at the end of the day, it’s about reaching the customer, the buyer. So I like the way you said that a lot, Bob, because I think that’s, that’s right on as well. Let me let me ask you a question, though. You know, right now, there’s a lot of enablement, professionals enablement teams that are worried about their jobs, you know, am I gonna have a job tomorrow? I’m not sure if they see me as adding value to the organization. And I think Unfortunately, there’s too many of the organizations or teams that fall into this. What advice would you give anybody feeling like, I’m worried that people aren’t seeing the value of what I’m providing the organization? Maybe maybe the answer is the flip side, what should they be doing to change it? You know, but what will you be telling them? Yeah, I would, again, goes back to what I said previously, that the value is defined by the consumer, not the the maker of the value, right? Yeah, no, that’s what you need to do, first of all, understand who it is that you’re servicing both internally and externally. And then Understand what their value basis, you know, what, what are they actually shooting for? And remember that it’s not always about the numbers. Yeah. Okay. So, you know, bean counters, you know, the money folk are going to be saying, Okay, what percentage uplift that you’re going to give me? based upon your activity? Okay, great. But again, it comes back to what I just got done saying, which is, okay, here’s the point in time value, got it, but where is it that they actually want to go? So, as far as, you know, understanding the value that you’re bringing to the organization? I wouldn’t suggest that people do, for example, a couple of focus groups, first of all, to really find out and ask the question straight up, what is it that that you value and how is it that we as a sales enablement team, are meeting that for you? You know, leave money out of it. What are you looking for? You’d be surprised sometimes at the answer that you get. Sometimes it’s about well, I need to Be able to find my clients. Okay, great. Well, we’ll, we’ll get you better at prospecting or something like that. Yeah, sometimes it’s about you know what, I just don’t have time to do whatever else I got going on, you know? So then it becomes how do I simplify things so that they have time to do the other things that they actually want to do? How do I get these sales people to stop being, for example, data entry clerks, which they all hate doing in their CRM? Nobody likes that. Yeah. So how do I get them to stop being that and how do I get them to start being closer to their clients? Yeah, that to have the person to person conversations, and those things aren’t necessarily financial, they train they translate into financial at the end of the day. You know, the other thing that you have to do as far as value is concerned, is remember that bean counters think in terms of and I mean that affectionately there are some bean counters I really like okay, I love them all because at the end of the day, those Those bean counters make sure that we get paid at the end of the day that you know, now for us, number one, but they’re not always fun to work through. Sometimes challenges. Yeah, I agree. So, so we have to understand about Matter of fact, I’ve lost my train of thought on that one. Hidden when that happens, let’s talk about something else for a second. No, no, no, no. Let me ask you this. Um, when, in your business today, in your work today in enablement? Have you got any sort of governance or communication or collaboration models that you’re using to make sure that things are are working the way you want them to? And what does that look like? Yeah, so the basic things are, first of all, what I do is I have a four step process that I go through, and I’m doing the sales enablement and it’s a triage, diagnose, prescribe and treat. It’s kind of like medical terms. Okay. Yep. And so the first one triage is just looking for the big rocks that are missing. What do you What’s going on in your sales organization that just isn’t there? You have a coaching program? Do you have the? Do you have a CRM in place? Do you do you have 1234? CRM? Some organizations have more than one? Yeah, you know what I’m talking about? Yeah. Do you know do you have an LMS? How are you actually communicating with people? All these all these different types of things? So the basic checklist that you probably have, exactly, yeah. And then, at the end of that, what you want to do is you want to create a charter, so that you understand, this is what I’m doing. Here’s my scope. Here’s how I’m funded. Here’s what I report to. And you always want to get as high up as you can. Because if you’re living under somebody else’s budget, then the probability of your success actually starts to diminish rapidly. So if you can you want to get your own budget, that kind of thing. Yeah. So that’s the diagnosis part. We had I mean, the triage part, then we have the diagnosis. And for diagnosis, what we need to do is we need to start looking at data And on the data side of it, most organizations have some already the quality of it can be questionable. So if you dump about CRM data, it’s all over the place. Absolutely. Absolutely. And so you really have to find a way to try and wrangle all that data. And then you also have to develop your own. So it requires, for example, ride alongs or interviews with everybody in the company talked about trying to figure out you know, what you got for who’s who in the zoo. So mixing data analysis and and surveys and conversations and stuff. gotta gotta. The other thing that’s that’s really interesting is most organizations don’t baseline their sellers, that most of them don’t take the time to really understand what kind of sellers that they have. Are they transactional? Are they more consultative, are they more business oriented? Do they have the kind of mindset where they can go out and create brand new markets for you? They just have no idea. They make these brands Ranging assumptions about their sellers, one of the worst of which being that they’re out coin operated, just throwing more money, and they’re going to perform better with coin operated. And if they were successful in that last company, they’re going to do great here. Yeah, absolutely the wrong assumptions. Yeah, you know, so what you need to be able to do is figure out where they are, baseline them. On what motivates them, what drives them, really. So, because what’s going to wind up happening is, if you don’t do that, it’s like sitting down to a poker table and trying to play cards without ever looking at the hand you’re dealt. All you’re doing is just trying to bluff the other guy that hey, look, I got this great hand here. Okay, it’s it’s about matching up my prototype. It’s about matching up the right seller with the right buyer at the end of the day. Yeah, I’m gonna resonate, right. Yeah. And so I can appreciate that there’s a certain amount of, you know, for example, a territory that that you have to have, but the assumption is That when you set it up by territory, that one seller is going to resonate with everybody in that territory. It doesn’t work that way. Yeah. I agree. At the end of the day, it’s, you know, it’s human to human that it doesn’t matter, b2b b2c, it’s a human talking to another human. It’s got to work. So what winds up happening is you gather all this data together the diagnosis phase, right, then you start to actually paint the picture of it and you start to connect the dots. And by the time you’ve done connecting the dots, you might wind up with a picture of an elephant. Okay? Yep. And then we get to the prescription phase, okay? And that’s where the really interesting conversations happen because you got to figure out, okay, you start to present this to folks that are in control of the business. And you say, here’s what you got. You got yourself an elephant. What’s your appetite? Do you even want to eat this elephant? If we eat this elephant, what order Are we going to eat it in? Okay, how are you know what kind of utensils are we going to use eat this elephant No, I get it. Yeah, exactly. So So this is where we have kind of like two different levels of conversations. You know, one of them might be what I sometimes call the ugly baby conversation. because, frankly, what frequently what happens is what you identify as an issue isn’t something that happened three or four months ago. It’s something that happened three or four years ago, systemically, at the very foundation of the company, right. And so you wind up having these conversations with them saying, you know what, this right here is part of the reason why having friction right now. So how willing are you to actually change something that’s been in place for four years? So that’s those are hard conversations to have sometimes. Yeah, they are. And then the other one has to do with, again, the whole what’s your appetite for the for the elephant type of Yeah. And then the last phase, which will be treatment, and that’s where you start to start to just execute you pull, you pull the trigger, you deal with the, with all the change management issues that come up, you know, one of the One of the biggest reasons that great ideas and companies fail is because they fail to do the the change management that’s required. It’s what we what we do in sales enablement is one thing like setting up a coaching program, for example, yeah, has technical to go out and maybe 16 other parts of the company. And when you do that program, and you initiate it, and if those other 16 stakeholders are blindsided, that’s when the walls go up. And that’s, that’s when the program that you just initiated, slows down or stops and gets trashed. And so you have to be able to bring those people into the fold, give them at least a heads up if not a say and how the whole thing is actually structured. I couldn’t agree more with you, Bob, because to me, that’s where a lot of teams fall down in terms of the communication and stuff. But even you know, when you think about the change management, which which you said very clearly there, you know, you might launch it really well but a year from Now, maybe two of those people have transitioned out those new people in, you still got to bring them in, you got to get them excited. Maybe your needs have changed. And you need to adjust the program along the way. So you’re right, there’s so many things that can change after the launch that can kill you just as bad as launching the wrong thing at the beginning. And the change management so important. You know, one of the things I wanted to ask you about just to get your thoughts on is, if I’m in an existing business, and and I’m looking around, and it goes back to our earlier point, but I’m gonna ask it sort of differently. And I’m saying, geez, this isn’t we’re not doing it right. Is it possible to take that triage, diagnose prescribing all of that process, that four step process that you that you laid out? And do that sort of in an iterative, agile fashion to make incremental change to get me moving in the right direction? Absolutely. Matter of fact, you have to do that. Thank you. Yeah. Okay. The The fact is that we don’t have solutions. This is the reality. Okay, yeah, let’s come down to the brass tacks. Businesses are about managing the curveballs that are coming into every single day. A solution today probably is not going to be a solution. Three years from now. Okay, probably not. Yeah, it’s going to morph. Okay. Yeah. So what you have to get good at is you have to get good at being agile, and being able to constantly change where you are, do not create this monolithic function or something in an organization, where you wind up the sunk costs at the end of it all. Because suddenly you have to change how many businesses do you know of that? Think tons and tons of money into something willing to find out that year and a half, two years later, okay, we’re not getting the ROI out of this that we thought before let’s just scrap it all and try the next great thing takes me two years to implement my e RP system and then I’m like, crap, it’s not what I need when I’m finished implementing. Yeah, yeah. No, I’m with you. And I wonder That out and ask you that specifically because that process you laid out is is a great way of thinking about it. But it doesn’t have to, it’s not a big bang thing. It’s not like you have to take months to do all of these steps. It is to the point that you just laid out really incremental, really smart, keep focused on delivering value. So you’re not asking anybody to step back and just take these big, long projects underway without making any steps forward. So really important, you know, let me ask you this, Bob, because we could talk for the next three days, and I would not get bored. But we’d have zero people actually paying attention to us at that point, you know, what are two or three things that you would tell any sales enablement team that you think they need to pay attention to today? You know, does a recent COVID crisis come into play? Is there anything there that you like? Two or three things, two or three tips, advice, whatever you have? Yeah, one of the things I’d say is that technology is a catalyst. Okay. And so as a catalyst, remember this that the application of technology is going to simply augment what you already have. So if your fundamentals are sound, and your messaging is on is on key and all that going for you got it all clicking, using technology to augment that might be a real boon to you, you might, that might actually be great for you. But if your fundamentals are screwed up, and your messaging is like out of left field, all you’re doing is broadcasting all of your sores and warts and everything to the rest of the world. Okay, it’s funny, and I tell people, you know, it’s the whole crap in crap out thing. If you got crap going into the system, maybe it’s coming out faster than it was before because you automated That’s right. That’s absolutely right. And so, um, so that’s one of the things I would actually say, Be wary of technology and focus on the fundamentals. You know, if you studied martial arts, what They have you they have you study, like four or five basic what are called cotton. So they’re they’re your basic, basic moves that everything else is based upon. Yep. If your car doesn’t sound, then all of the extra stuff all the other, all the other things are going to have a poor foundation. You practice that over and over and over again until you know it cold before you move on to the next thing the next belt level too. So very Yeah, very true. The other thing I’d say is, understand that since this is human to human interaction, and we’re talking about communicating with each other, we have to get to story. storytelling. Oh, interesting. Everybody’s talking about stories today. But what do you what do you mean the storytelling and stories? Yeah, what do you mean by that? Here’s the real trick with this. Okay. Most people view storytelling as just a way to take your normal messaging and packaging it, packaging it differently into a story most for example, Case studies, case studies are set up and typically a story a story type of fashion. Okay? They are Yeah. But it’s but it’s clinical. It’s here’s the status quo. Here’s the problem. They had they solved it with this. And then here’s their final state. Yeah. What they fail to do is they fail to bring the human emotion into it. I agree. Yeah. I agree with that, Bob. Yeah. So So what they fail to do is they fail to say, Okay, here’s this company that was sitting there dumb, fat and happy, and things are going great. You know, they got on a roll, and then suddenly, boom, happens. Yeah. And then so they had a problem. And what were the people feeling when that happened? They were panicked. They were scared. What have you, you know, but there’s emotion going on there. Okay. Yeah. Then you say okay, fine. We came along. We started talking to them and they were nervous about talking to us. You know, they they got all this stuff going on and back here they are just like the world is coming down on top of them. They’re trying to sort out the wheat from the chaff. They got all these vendors coming at them, how the heck are they supposed to do their job, right? It’s an emotion that they’re feeling. And then they went ahead and they implemented it. They were nervous about it. But you know what, they’re also excited over the fact that it could actually actually work for them. And then at the end of the day, after you’d get them solving the problem, they’re like, Wow, this is great. There’s a new normal for us. And then, you know, they’re, they’re excited about it. But that emotion is what’s missing from most sales conversations. I think I mean, that’s interesting, because I believe in the school of thought that people buy with emotion. they justify it after the fact, rationally. But all of us have some emotional reason why we we love a certain seller, we’re working with a certain product with us. So I think that’s really a smart set of points there, Bob, the other the other point of storytelling, the most everybody misses is this. Storytelling is not just about taking your message and delivering it. Yep. It’s about Taking your message, saying it to somebody and shutting the hell up. Because story compels story. If when you tell a story, somebody is compelled to tell you a story back. And that is the real point of storytelling, because what you’re doing is they’re telling you their story. If you do something, if you’re opening up to them with just a little bit of emotion about a story, whether it’s your own personal story, or whether it’s somebody else’s, it gives them permission to feel the way that they’re feeling. And they come back with a story that has a little bit of emotion in it to the wall cracks a little bit and that barrier, that natural barrier between buyer and seller starts to break down. If you think back and let’s just go back to the days when we were dating if you know, some of you out there listening might not even be married yet, right? Yeah, maybe. Yeah. Okay. So So think about this for a second when you were dating and trying to get the other person interested in you. Do you just throw up all over them and then And talk about you uuuuu. I know people that do and they’re still single, let’s put it that way. But if you think about it, what you do is you tell a little snippet about yourself, be quiet, the person tells another snippet back about the same length, you increase the snippet, length snippet with snippet link, just like that onion, pulling back the layers. Yeah, that is what sales is all about. I gotta tell you, and the goal of selling is not to necessarily push product that’s not well, it’s one of the goals, but it’s not the first goal. The first goal of selling is to get the person in front of you to say in some form or fashion. So what do you think? So what would you do in this situation? Because that is when you would now have permission to talk about something other than yourself? Yeah, you you’ve established enough relationship, trust whatever we want to call it. Some people say trusted advisor Your status, but at the end of the day, you’ve earned the right to talk about you, which is really, really, really spot on Bob. That that’s awesome, man, I you know what, I could talk for another three hours, but I, I’m not going to do that. What I’m going to ask you, though before we before we come to an end, you know, was there anything that you felt like Geez, john, we didn’t talk about this and I just want to share this one point or this one idea that you want to make sure people are aware of. It’s okay, if there’s not. You provided a ton of great feedback tips and all of that along the way. But was there anything else you want to throw out there? But yeah, I would just say this, as far as leading a sales team, okay is concerned. Understand that there are really three things that a sales leader has to be able to do when sales leaders are promoted, typically they’re promoted based upon their ability to sell, okay? Not to manage not to lead Yeah, right. And so as soon as that is really have three They have to do one they have to manage their customers, which we’ve already proven they can do two and a half to be able to manage their business, which is they learn how to do that. And they’re how to manage pipelines and cop packages and, and their territories and things. So they learn how to do that. The third thing they have to be able to do is grow their people and get rid of that hero mentality. Yeah. Because it’s all about your people that you’re leading, not you yourself. If you make yourself part of every single deal. You’re never going to really excel in sales. You’re always going to be struggling like Sisyphus, pushing that ball uphill. Amen. Amen, Bob. So just be focused on how it is you’re actually going to get your sellers get your people developed. And I think that honestly, you’re gonna have a ton more success. And that’s such an important piece of advice for any leader in any role. I remember when I first got promoted my first leadership position. Okay, john, he’s in charge now. It’s gonna be great. And and one The very first thing that I tried to do was be that hero in each and everything we did. And guess what we sucked. Because john shouldn’t be trying to be the hero. I need to make everybody else the hero and it took a long time to realize that too long. But that’s because I’m born in Vermont, and my head’s a little harder than it should be. We’re about supermind I’m near the border of New Hampshire, a little near a little town called this God made for mocking Yeah, I know it. Well, I you know, it’s funny. In a prior life, I don’t know how much time we got here. But in a prior life, I was actually running essentially the state of Vermont, for recruiting for the Navy. Oh, man, that’s so cool. Yeah. So I had three recruiting stations. I had Barry, Burlington and Rutland. And, you know, off and on, I probably had about 12 or 12 recruiters, and so I know our spending is absolutely. That’s awesome. Awesome. You and I had never talked about that. That’s amazing. That’s a really cool, Bob. I’m gonna let you go because we’ve gone Already a little bit long, but I appreciate you. And I appreciate your thinking. And I know all of us in the enablement space have two things that we do really well. We look out for each other, we try to raise up to profession, which I think 95 98% of the profession does really well. And you will soar certainly in that group. Just generous to the core, and and all the way to the soul. So I appreciate you and everything you share all the time. So we don’t always agree. But that’s okay. We can have respectful conversations, which is which is wonderful, too. There’s very little we disagree on Bob. But there’s probably a little thing here or there. Anyway, thank you so much. I appreciate you. And thank you, everybody for taking a little time today to listen and Bob is really smart been doing enablement for a long time. If you haven’t figured that out, check him out on LinkedIn. Take a look at his website. Take a look at all the smart things he’s doing. And in you could do a lot worse in terms of people who follow them.